Baby male veiled food consumption.

S

simonsaysno

New Member
Hello to all

I have a baby veiled cham which i think is approximately 8-12 weeks old, ive had him for a month this friday. i was told by the owner of the store that i bought him from that he was 3 weeks old when i bought him, making him nearly 7 weeks now, but having compared him to other baby veiled's from a different store (which i was told were 10 weeks old) im finding it hard to believe he was only 3 weeks when i had him. Anyways, he's young. At first he was full of life and snatching up every cricket in site. now he seems to have slowed down a little. become a lot more lethargic and not really that fussed in the food that i put in there. ive been using crickets, locust and mealworm. i was told he should be eating around 20 of them a day. hes eating around 10 at MAX id say, and when i return to check on him, im finding that what ive put in the viv is still there. He seems to be drinking fine. i spray once a day which he doesnt seem too fussed on. he likes to drink the droplets of water straight off the spray bottle.
his behavior has seemed quite normal until around 4 days ago when i started to see many footprints all around the sand at the bottom of my enclosure and realized that hes going walkabouts and not using the leaves and vines. when hes struts around on the sand, he goes a dark green/brown. i thought this may be due to stress but ive seen him eat some run away worms off the sand whilst hes down there and because apparently they dont eat when stressed, ive had to question this and now im slightly confused about his behavior. Hes slow, i honestly couldnt imagine him plucking a fly from the air. sometimes it seems like he doesnt have a hope in hell of catching crickets but they seems to slowly disappear. Also, recently ive seen him fire his tongue at nothing. he will sit on his leaf overlooking the bowl of meal worm, and quickly turn to the side and fire his tongue at the sand, not catching anything because there is nothing there to catch. finding this behavior very odd and im starting to get a little worried. Its my first reptile and ive become complete fascinated by him. just want to make sure the little guy is safe and happy. Sorry its a long post, any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and Kind regards.

Tried uploading a photo but it consistently says upload failed.
 
Is he pooping? Its recommended not to use substrates in chameleon cages because a lot of them can lead to an impaction. I haven't heard of sand doing that, but it might depend on what kind of sand you're using. Also, you said he seemed to be shooting at nothing but the sand...so it might be the problem. What specific supplements do you use and how often for each? Do you gutload/feed the insects a nutritious diet?
 
yeah hes poopin' and it looks healthy. When i received him, the shop owner gave me small wood chippings as a substrate, but i immediately went out and got sand from a reptile center as i was afraid he may miss a cricket and end up choking on a bit of wood. i was told in the reptile center that sand was what i needed and that i should never have been given the wood chippings. its very fine clean sand. the fact that that is what i was given angered me because it could have caused some serious damage. im reluctant to go back to where i bought him now because the bloke clearly doesnt know what hes doing.
i use nutrobal supplement which is a high strength combined calcium and vitamin powder. and due to it being concentrated i only dust his food twice a week which is what i was advised. i did it a little more than that one week and noticed white stuff around his nose, i then read about it and became aware that it was just his way of getting rid of excess calcium. I havent really being feeding the insects. they have oats in their containers and i have put in a small slice of potato too. as well as that, i have a slice of orange in the viv which they all seem to love and some salad leaves which no one really pays any attention to. but its there just incase. Thanks for your reply too!
 
Hello, welcome to the forum :) First up, I always post this link to new owners with Veileds because it gives all the basic info you need - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html.
...... it depends on the size of the insects you give him but 10 a day isn't bad at that age.
I think you should mist him at least 3 times a day, and you need to look at gutloading your insects better because that is important for Chams.
Without a picture it's hard to see if there's anything actually wrong, but it might also be something to do with the vitamin schedule. Chances are that what you were advised is not the best, because pet shops are useless when it comes to Chameleons....
Usually a Phosphorous free Calcium (no d3) is used for everyday dusting....
Twice a month with a concentrated d3, and also twice a month with a mulitivitamin.
 
Thanks! the site is great. being new to forums though, its more than slightly confusing! Thats great thanks dave, i had a feeling that i was just been fed a load of s$%^ from these guys. i'll look to get the powders asap. my cousin has a bearded dragon and he uses the same powder that was sold to me. should have clicked really that it may not be the right stuff. Is there a good website that you can recommend to purchase things from for my cham? food, dust and what ever else i may need in the future?
Thanks for the link, ill be sure to read through it once im done with this message.
was trying to upload photos of chavez but im unable to do so at this moment. think it may be because im a new member to the site.
do you have any advice for gutloading the insects please? again, at the reptile center i was told that there was no need to do this! :confused:
 
yeah, just had a good read over it now and wasnt aware that gutloading was such a big part of the chams diet. honestly, i thought i was doing enough. will have to start feeding the feeders. What was that uk site? i have a few more questions if your able to help please mate.
Hes strutting around on the floor but eating from time to time whilst hes doing so. why do you think hes spending so much time down low?
He literally just tried to take a massive bite out of one of the leaves which are plastic. is this a problem? thought it might have spun him out a bit and made him realise he is in fact a pet in captivity ha, maybe not the nicest thing to realise.
And one last thing, i was sold a viv which i think is more suited to a dragon or something. its a horizontal wooden viv with a glass front 2foot high, 2foot wide 3foot long. i was told that this would be ok for him for the first couple of months and then i could swap it for a bigger viv when he gets bigger. cant say im happy about this. ive looked at getting a nice decent sized vertical viv for him as im aware they need a lot of room to go up and down to regulate body temperature. would a wooden viv with glass front provide enough ventilation for him whilst keeping temperature and humidity? or are there different options. i know most cham owners in the states use screened cages but i dont think thats appropriate for the cold weather he get here in the uk.
Again, cant thank you enough for your time to point me in the right direction.
 
i was just able to take a little video of him shooting his tongue at the sand. same spot every time. its weird. is it possible to upload the video so people can take a look and see what they think?
 
When veileds aren't getting enough water they shoot at the sand and injest it. The adults poop out the sand. I am thinking that the babies would have a hard time doing this. Please remove the sand and use nothing in the bottom of the tank or paper towels only. No substrate is needed. I raise veileds and know the sand issue for a fact. When my mothers are getting ready to lay they injest the sand if I don't spray them enough so I spray, spray, spray.
 
the purpose of the substrate was to cover a heat mat that the owner of the reptile store said was needed to achieve the temperature along with a heat lamp. shall this be removed also? Thanks
 
You should be able to get a decent gradient with just one basking spot, so most people don't use the heat mats for chams (they just don't work as well for arboreal lizards)
 
Here's some information I hope will help you with things like supplements, gutloading, etc....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects (crickets, locusts, silkworms, superworms, tomato worms, phoenix worms, butter worms, once in a while waxworms, etc.) that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.
 
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