Babies are dieing???

[chamy]

Actually, they started turning dark weeks ago. Then they shrank and pipped in about 2 days, and came out either the day they pipped or one or 2 days later, depending on the individual. But for weeks some of the eggs have been dark and sort of clear looking and huge, like they were going to burst. When the eggs shrank they turned a yellow/white/brown and laid there all shriveled like some dead looking thing. Then, later that day, or a day or two later, a baby would squirm out.

Okay its been 2 days since three of them have shrank and turned all that ugly yellowish/brownish color. I can actually see one inside the egg with its mouth open a little. It looks dead! Another one looked like that and I just left it there and 3 weeks later I finally got tired of looking at it all shrivled and brownish/yellow looking so I opened it up and all the yolk was hard around it and of course the baby was dead..

 

[chamy]

What has happened since? Anymore make it out?


Debby

No, but thanks for asking

 

[DESERT DAVE]

i HAVE hatched 4 clutches since sept. 50% survived on the first one during the winter. march, 75% may 85% and just this month mylast clutch is about 90% or more still healthy. which leads me to believe the ones that hatch in the summer do better. also the longer they incubate the better giving me larger hatchlings and healthier it would seem also. makes feeding easier since i find it hard to keep enough fruit flies for 100 hatchlings.
the last two clutches i have had went straight to 1/4 " crickets. although they struggle a little. mine incubate for 11 months like yours.
I did have about 6 total that slit the egg and that's where they died like you mentioned. makes me think survival of the fittest but your mortality rate is still high with only two survivors. like mentioned above keep your incubator cups well moist if not real wet vermiculite.
i have helped seperate the egg for a slow hatch hatchling. most of the time it's successful but not always.

 

[kinyonga]

I have had the same survival rate no matter what time of the year the clutches hatch. Did your method change at all...including humidity levels in the containers? Did you make any changes to the way the female was kept from one clutch (laying) to the other?

 

[chamy]

Okay this was my first clutch of babies and it was also my veilds first clutch.. I was incurbating them for the first 9-10 months in a plasitic container in a shoe box but didn't have the plastic lids on the plasitic containers, I'm sure this had something to do with it. Because once I put the lids on they immediatly swelled up and about a month and a half later they started hatching. But the problem is they are all dead you can see their faces smashed up against the egg kind of like if you stuck your face to a window and most have their mouths open. If I just leave them in there the yolk turns hard around them, so I opened a couple of them up and they are all very pale looking with their mouth open and/or tounges hanging out . They are obviously gonners but what I don't understand is why ALL of them? I only have two that came out fine and it doesn't look like nobody else is going to make it out. They do everything like they are going to hatch, swell up, start sweating, shrinking and some even slit the egg and the others don't then they ALL die . Out of 29 eggs two came out with no problem and are doing well, 1 came out and two weeks later it got blind/wouldn't open eyes then died a week later. And now all the other ones are just dead inside the eggs WHY ?? Was it because of not having lids on them, then when I put the lids on the matured to quickly or something???

I have 2 swollen eggs left that are clearish so I can see a little GREEN guy in there and red veins everywhere, but this is how all the other ones looked too until they shrank and sweat then they never came out just stayed in the egg to die..

Their humidity is around 60% and they are at room temperature.. They are sitting on top of my dvd player in my bedroom though could the heat from the dvd player played a roll??? Or was the whole batch just bad except for two???


Any help!!!!


Thanks!!!

I forgot to add some even roll around in the egg like its having a hard time getting out!!

 

[Fate X]

how many eggs did you have the veileds in side of end they never came out?
i think maybe the shell got to thick and they got trapped inside.i didnt beleive it could happen and the shell would rot.you should have taken some pitures

 

[chamy]

how many eggs did you have the veileds in side of end they never came out?
i think maybe the shell got to thick and they got trapped inside.i didnt beleive it could happen and the shell would rot.you should have taken some pitures

Every egg but one>>>> the babies are perfectly formed and eveything, just dead.. I would take pictures but my camera will not take up close pictures for some reason, maybe I don't know how to use it,,,,, it is a $300 camera..

 

[chamy]

Well out of 29 eggs only 2 lived and made it out>>>>> all the other ones died.. I wish I knew why!!!!!

 

[PantherVeileD]

to take pictures... stay far away and zoom in.. try that.. From what I've read ppl incubate their eggs in a closet? Don't really know why because I'm not a breeder... but they say to keep the egg in a dark place... as if the eggs were to be underneath the soil still... Guessing DVD player can get hot and heat temp is always jumping?????

 

[kinyonga]

Don't know if this will help explain it or not...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/sad-day-4118/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/babies-stuck-eggs-5527/
http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-27251.html

Eggs that have dried out also will be leathery and the babies won't survive. I think they would suffocate.

 

[chamy]

Don't know if this will help explain it or not...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/sad-day-4118/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/babies-stuck-eggs-5527/
http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-27251.html

Eggs that have dried out also will be leathery and the babies won't survive. I think they would suffocate.

Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much!!!!! Those links explained ALOT!!!! That is exactly what happened to mine>>> the eggs were too tough for them to get out , too much humidity in the last month of hatching.


Thanks again!!!!!

 

[TreelionsUK]

hello just thought i'd add...

The diet and calcium intake of your female chameleons is critical for producing good healthy eggs.
From experiance i have found that poorly calcified eggs often fail to hatch.
If you put a poorly calcified egg next to a healthy egg you will see the difference,good eggs are white(can get stained by the laying substrate tho) with a uniform shell,and have tiny lines on the shell which are the layers of calcium.
Chameleons eggs breath,the top of the shell takes in air and the bottom of the egg takes in the moisture/humidity
Often a poorly calcified egg can give the wrong impression of growth,and tend to draw in too much moisture,the egg blows up and looks very big giving the impression of good growth.but this growth is nothing more than moisture trapped in the egg,in the final month of incubation you will notice that the eggs did not sweat like they should do just before hatch,because the egg shell can no longer breath and pass the moisture through the top of the shell
this then results in the baby chameleon drowning in the egg.

A few tips for avoiding this sad condition

Start to "condition" your egg laying female a good month before breeding,use the best gutloads and keep the supplement routine in check and increase calcium intake slightly,you must keep this up for the 4-6 weeks your female is producing the eggs.
Think ahead,your female will lose lots of calories whilst digging around the egg laying site,make sure she has the correct amount of fat on her body,so she can use it when feeding is reduced,she should be plump and have a good layer of fat on her body(ribs,spine,and tail base should be covered)

Get your humidity level correct from day one,Some People confuse "humidity" with soaking wet and this combined with a poor diet and calcuim intake,is game over for the eggs,
You can always add moisture to your eggs,but removing it is harder,
The mix of vermiculite should be SLIGHTY moist(almost dry) not sopping wet.
i also found that and night time drop during the incubation gave bigger and stronger babies.
Fuss more over your females! and you should not have any problems

Hope this helps
Luke

 

[boothy]

that was your problem there , not having the tops of your egg containers on to hold in that much needed moisture(humidity) so your babies could pipe the eggs easily from them being moist and not like a leather boot, so try using a lil dish of water inside with the egg containers when you next do this , not to much maybe 3/8ths of an inch to half inch of water in a lil dish should be plenty and just watch that everyday to make sure your not geting low on water , but im going to recommend a hova bator incubator from lllreptile there only 40 or 50 bucks with like 20 dollar shipping and its still cheaper then going to a pet store and buying one for 150 or 175 cause they jack the price up on us, but i deff recommend a incubator for doing reptiles eggs

 

[Heika]

Anybody else have any thoughts on this issue



Lydia

The health of the mother has an impact on the health of the eggs. I have had eggs make it clear to hatching, only to have the babes die.. or, the youngsters died one after the other. In those cases, I can usually look to the health of the mother at the time the eggs were laid as a possible source of the problem.

 

[jojackson]

Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOO much!!!!! Those links explained ALOT!!!! That is exactly what happened to mine>>> the eggs were too tough for them to get out , too much humidity in the last month of hatching.

Too much humidity generally swells the eggs, even burst them sometimes, and can effectively 'drown' neonates. I fail to see how too much humidity would make eggs more 'tough' or leathery than usual. Id suspect weaker/smaller hatchlings due to deficiency of the female as mentioned.
Theoretically, too small a hatchling inside the egg might make escape difficult, most hatchlings tend to fill the egg pretty well prior to pipping, so theres not much room, therefore less pressure/leverage against the membrane with the eggtooth would be required to break through.
If anything lack of humidity might dry out the egg having a 'hardning' effect.

I tend the pip the rest of the clutch after the first few pip naturally. They are left in situ and the lid replaced on the egg box to retain the humidity. Never lost hatchlings due to inability to break out.

Note: If you dont know what your doing then refrain from pipping eggs! Neonates are easily damaged , even killed accidently by ameatures with sharp instruments. To this end I wont reveal teckniques.
Never remove a hatchling from the egg! As explained earlier, hatchlings remain inside absorbing the yolk before emerging in their own good time. Removing a neonate from the egg, and/or severing the remaining yolk is often fatal.

What Id like to know from the experts is if over supplimentation of a gravid female could cause her produce 'tougher' eggs than normal? Most folk tend to simply 'boost everything' for a gravid female. I dont beleive this is nessesarily a smart approach.
Females SHOULD be in the best possible condition, but perhaps its possible for enthusiastic would be breeders to go overboard???

Some great info on the various teckniques of incubating chameleon species (Goood reading for those intrested)

http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=113


**********************
Incidental

Some intresting info I came across (not sure of Accuracy, never heard it before) Anyone??? Sounds a bit dodgy to me!

Some species such as chameleons do not fare well to candling and you should keep them in a more darkened area for the duration of the incubation. Candling a veiled chameleon egg, for instance, can cause birth defects and, more often, death. Mistakes made in this department, especially with unknown or unbred species of reptiles are devestating but also a learning experience. To avoid these types of mistakes, ask questions of different breeders and seek all of the available information you can before you proceed.

http://double-d-reptiles.tripod.com/eggs.html

 

[kinyonga]

Jojackson said..."Too much humidity generally swells the eggs, even burst them sometimes, and can effectively 'drown' neonates"...I agree with this.
In your case the eggs might have become "tougher" or more leathery due to you having left the lids off initially, IMHO.

I don't supplement the gravid females much more than I do regularly because I don't breed a female that I don't feel is in good enough condition to do well while gravid. I don't know if over-supplementing can cause egg shells that are too thick/tough/calcified or not.