Awsome pictures of some panthers!

[westcoastchameleons]

Here is my new Red White And Blue Ambilobe! His name is Uncle Sam.

And here is my 5 month old male Nosy-Be Neoready to breed already!)

More below!!

 

[westcoastchameleons]

Neo again...

Here is Cutie Pie...She is from Tyler and has about double in wieght in 2 months and is now at 40 grams!

And here is huge hoochie...Bought from Tyler a long while ago! Now 150 grams, not recptive though..LOL

Thanks,
Jake

 

[Vibrant Chameleons]

Nice chams Jake. That ambilobe will be a nice breeder.

 

[chameloman72]

Did you get that ambilobe fom Prism?? Very nice!!

 

[pohchunyee]

That Ambilobe from Prisms Chameleon?

 

[PardalisGirl]

Nice Pictures Jake!

Nice pictures Jake! A little birdie told me that you got a new Ambilobe from Jenna at Prism Chameleons delivered to you the other day. He's very nice. He has a beautiful head coloration. The others are great too. You have a very nice collection. Congrats on all of them

 

[westcoastchameleons]

Nice pictures Jake! A little birdie told me that you got a new Ambilobe from Jenna at Prism Chameleons delivered to you the other day. He's very nice. He has a beautiful head coloration. The others are great too. You have a very nice collection. Congrats on all of them

Yes, He is from PrismChameleons! Jennais awsome toworkwith, and gotme an awsome critter! I cant wait to seewhat he will be like! BTW, i believe he origionallyfrom out of thecountry, FRESH lineage!

Thanksfor the compliments,
Jake

 

[davider]

Great lookin' chams! Wow Jake the nosy has progressed like crazy its unbelievable..
The rest of the gang is amazing as well especially the new ambilobe.
Keep up the progress.

David

 

[westcoastchameleons]

Thanks again guyz!

Jake

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jake,

Forgive me, but what "Ambilobe" are they talking about here ? Uncle Sam ?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jake,

I saw where Uncle Sam was the labeled Ambilobe. Likely bred "out of the country". Someone dropped Jenna's name. Jenna is a wonderful person to work with, and we need more like her in the hobby. If it came from her, I am sure it was sold as received. If it originated from Indo, they are notorious for sending mutts. I personally have no idea where Uncle Sam originated beyond what is mentioned in this thread, but he's not Ambilobe pedigree. Best guess would be that he is 50-75% Nosy Be. For those members who post here who also have unpacked imports "fresh off the boat", literally taken them from the bag at the airport, or photographed them in the wild, can anyone post a picture of a WC Ambilobe that resembled that ? There's a lot of variety in that locale, and I've unpacked thousands, but not that much variety. On the flip side, I have produced my fair share of locale mutts, and its a match with many of those that I have hatched and raised.

 

[westcoastchameleons]

Hey Jim,
as always...Its nice to see you. I understand your post, and wont take any personal offense. I just want to know how you are SURE he is not ambilobe? I dont want to say he isnt ambliobe right away. If however he is not, I will accept it..He is beautiful none the less.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[mightyzug]

i can see what he is sayin. awesome pics / animals you got there, and as i was lookin at uncle sam i was thinkin the same thing like that doesn't resemble any ambilobe i have ever seen. not that i have seen thousands or anything ... but he does resemble some morph crosses that i was lookin at.

but then again i dunno jack either but if it were an ID chellenge and not labeled ambilobe then i would probably not guess ambilobe... if he is then he is a really unique one... but it doesn't really matter what he is, he is still damn awesome

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jake,

Thanks for the post. This always makes for a good discussion, and thanks for volunteering . First and foremost, you could post a picture of a Tamatave, calling it a Nosy Be, and I could not bet my first born that it was not a Nosy Be. Maybe a grandchild. All we have to go by are what has been pulled out of trees in and around Ambilobe, or photographed through the years likewise, and then the rest of Mada for alternative comparisons. To that mix, those of us with some reasonable breeding experience can also bring a familiarity of what happens when you cross, for instance, a Tamatave with a Nosy Be, which won't be naturally occuring in a tree in Mada, but might be a tad common here, or via Indo, etc. Bottom line, we are limited in what we can say definitively.

One very telltale sign on that chameleon is the banding and background, especially regarding the color blue/turquoise. We have all seen many WC bloodines where the blue bars might be clean, or they might be freckled with red/orange, etc. They might have crisp edges , or not so crisp. What we don't see, using blue on red Ambilobes as an example, is a reverse frecking of the red background in between, where lets suppose the red background has a mirror freckling of blue. In Ambilobes, any significant frequency of blue is in the bars, and very minimal elsewhere. That critter has got a fair amount of blue speckeld into the background red, almost to where it is difficult to say what color is the barring, and what is the background. Blue/turquoise as a background is only trademarked to one locale, Nosy Be. All of this is just based on past observation, and if there's a tree in the Ambilobe region full of critters like this, then flush this post. Its pretty much a given that no true importer is going to produce a picture of a valid WC that resembles this animal.

Conversely, I have produced hybrids that could be the twin brother to this animal. Nosy Be was always an ingredient, but beyond that, you can get some similar stuff with a mix of Ambilobe or Tamatave, depending on whether it a 25% mix or a 50% mix. I am also blessed to know many in the business, and have seen and talked with many about some of the junk coming out of Indo of late. Some of it is good, and some of it is a tad tainted.

If you were to graph the color possibilities of almost any locale, it would be the typical bell curve, with 95% falling within expectations. There are always those fringe critters that stretch the imagination. I have seen WC Nosy Be's that would at least call your animal a close cousin. I have never seen an Ambilobe that would allow Uncle Sam to sit at a family reunion.

BTW, as an ex paratrooper, I think Uncle Sam is a great name ! He is all of that !

 

[westcoastchameleons]

LOL.
I see what you are saying Jim. It also seems that there no ABSOLUTE way to be able to tell if he is or is NOT an ambilobe though to right? I want to see what Jenna says to. Although like stated before, he is awsome either way.

Jake

 

[FL Chams]

Hey Jake,
Jim's right it's not 100% ambilobe. Indo is for sure producing Hybrids. Some stuff that comes in is pure locale others are really colorful hybrids. He hit the nail on the head with this one. I'm sure it was sold as pure though. Jenna wouldn't knowingly misrepresent them that's for sure.

 

[westcoastchameleons]

Alrighty,
well although he seems to not be ambilobe any longer, he is still awsome!
I will stick with him, and see how he turns out.

Jake

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jake,

That is correct. I can't say it isn't anything for certain (OK, its not a pig). I thank Mike M. for sharing his experience here as well. Its kind of one of those "it doesn't look like a duck, walk like a duch, talk like a duck" things.

For those of us who have unpacked alot of WC stuff, and who also bred, every now and then we pull something out of a bag that looks incredible, but then also does not fit the known bell curve too well. Like it or not, because it is not typical, we then have to make the case, should we sell it directly or breed it and sell its offspring, that its the "real McCoy". Regardless of what we say, or how good our credibility otherwise is, if it doesn't fit the expectations out there, we might have a hard sell ahead of us.

Anyhow, he is one extraordinary looking animal. Now you just have to reproduce him in quantity ! And if we find a tree in Mada full of chams that look like that, I figure more than a few of us would be in a knock-down, drag-out beneath it to see who is the first to scamper up it ! Winner buys the beer. Take care.

 

[westcoastchameleons]

LOL
Jim, I will have eggs from him within the next 1-2 months

Jake

 

[unbreakable]

interesting topic as my supposed nosey be is also a dead ringer for your panther, check him out