At what size should I reduce feedings for a female veiled chameleon?

[Peppered]

Hello! I haven't introduced myself yet but I'm currently owned by a juvenile(?) female veiled chameleon named Pepper.

From what I've read, it seems recommendation is to reduce feedings/amount of feeders for juvenile females around 6 months of age, but I don't know the age of my girl. I brought her home on May 19th and she was pretty small, maybe ~4 inches in total length. I'll attach a picture of her now, she looks more like ~6 inches total length now (rough estimates, I can try and get a better look when I get home today).

Could I please get some advice on how soon I should begin to pull back on feedings?
I've been offering a variety daily, usually 2-3 different kinds bugs including: silkworms, small super worms, BSFL, dubias, red runners, crickets, and a couple of "retired" silkworm moths recently. I have waxworms that I'm waiting to turn into moths, as well. She eats anywhere from 10-20 feeders depending on the size of the bugs before she gets full.

Thank you for any and all advice

 

[ToastyCham]

Hi and welcome to the forum! I believe you can start cutting back for a female when they get to be around 8 months old but I’m not 100% sure. I’ll tag in a more experienced member. @MissSkittles

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome! What a little cutie! In the first pic, she does look a bit young and I’d guesstimate she is maybe about 3-4 month old or so. I’m not the best at guesstimating age but @jannb can give a much better approximation.
I can say that she does look young enough that she is still needing adequate nutrition to grow. It sounds like you’re giving her a fantastic variety of feeders. Do ensure that they are all well fed (depending on species) so that they are more nutritious. If you haven’t yet seen or read it, here’s my blog on laying for our beautiful veiled ladies. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/veiled-chameleon-laying-101.2488/ I didn’t specify feeder size, but I assume most feed insects on the larger side of what their chameleon is able to manage.
I do see a couple of things in your pics that I’d like to suggest changing. The first is that black Exo Terra vine. They’ve been notorious for shedding tiny particles that always seem to make their way into sensitive little googly eyes. Fluker’s makes a nice bendy vine https://www.amazon.com/Fluker-Labs-...=1719170192&sprefix=Fluker's+v,aps,120&sr=8-2 I also like to use natural branches that I’ve collected, washed with Dawn dish soap and blasted to rinse with the hose. Oak is perfect. Just avoid branches from trees with odor or sap, like pine, eucalyptus, etc. Wood dowels, grapevine both mold rather quickly. Branches from craft stores often have little insects living in them. (Crazy, isn’t it?)
You also want to replace all of your artificial plants with safe lean live ones. Pothos is a chameleon keepers best friend. Our veiled girls love to munch their plants and it can take only one bite of a fake one to cause a bowel obstruction. This will help guide you. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ I take all of my plants down as close to bare root as I can, wash the leaves with my trusty Dawn dish soap and then rinse rinse rinse, before repotting in fresh organic soil. I doo all of this stuff outside as the hose helps so much. Do keep in mind that some plants, like those that are more ‘outside’ ones will need special plant lighting.
If you’d like a full husbandry review, copy & paste with your answers and we can make certain everything is as perfect as possible for your cutie.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Peppered]

Thank you both! I hadn't realized that about the Exo Terra vines, thank you for letting me know!
I've got golden pothos and some type of philodendron hybrid (I forget the name, berry something?) but they're still a little small and won't provide much cover. Do you think I should still remove the plastic plants right now or should I wait until I get some fuller plants to add to the cage? I've been trying to find a larger money plant or umbrella plant but all the ones I find are either huge or really small

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - female veiled chameleon, owned for about a month so far. Not sure exact age but I trust your estimation to be around 3-4 months
• Handling - infrequently, and only when she allows it. She's highly food motivated and she will come to the front of the cage while I prepare the food in the room, and if I leave the door open, she will climb out and often onto my hand/arm just to eat lol. I don't try to handle otherwise.
• Feeding - variety of bugs as noted in my first post, fed once daily with at least 2 types of insects. They're maintained on repashy bug grub, water crystals and fresh veggies and gutloaded with fresh veggies (bell peppers and squash plus a variety of seasonal veggies, depends on what's available) and leafy greens (no kale or spinach, I try to avoid high oxalate foods). I grind the food up and make frozen cubes out of it so the insects can't pick and choose as much lol. Also repashy superload.
• Supplements - zoo med calcium without D3 every feeding except Saturdays, zoo med multivite and repashy supercal every other Saturday, interchangeably. (Should I switch from supercal to the zoomed calcium w/ D3? I've read recently that supercal might have too much D3, even if only used once every 2 weeks)
• Watering - Ive seen her drink in front of me, lately she moves towards the dripper when I'm not paying close attention but I don't actively see her drink most of the time. I don't know if she drank the first couple of weeks with me.
• I have a dripper I let run slowly for about an hour every day, and I mist the whole cage down after lights go off at night. I'm saving for a mistking system for a better automated system.
• Fecal Description - never been tested, they are fairly large and solid, not exactly dry but not mushy or slimy either. Urates are mostly white, usually with a little bit of yellow where it connects to the feces
• History - I got her from a local family owned pet store, they don't specialize in reptiles but I believe they provide above-averagr care compared to many other pet stores. It could be considered bare minimum if it was care provided by a pet owner, though. Pepper had been there for a few weeks before I decided to get her and she was well fed and hydrated when I got her.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen reptibreeze cage, currently the 16 x 16 x 30. I'm planning to upgrade in the next couple of weeks, I have another 16 x 16 x 30 enclosure that I was planning to connect for a 32 x 16 x 30 cage, but wondering your thoughts on if that will be a little too small for her as an adult?
• Lighting - a 24" reptisun t5-ho 5.0 and a 25w incandescent light bulb for basking. The uv light overhangs the width of the cage some but I figured it would be better to get the longer one for when I moved her into an adult cage haha. Both are on for 12 hours daily, from 9am to 9pm
• Temperature - I use two probe digital thermometers, ambient lower temps are around 74-76 F with the basking spot around ~86 F at the very closest. The spot she usually likes to bask is about 83.F
• Humidity - I have 2 digital hygrometers and they have been sitting at about 35% in the middle of the day recently, but I just bought an opaque shower curtain yesterday and wrapped it around the back and both sides because 35 seemed a little low. When I get home from work I will check the hygrometers again and see if it's holding humidity better. Primarily I mist the cage for humidity and have the pothos and philodendron at the bottom of the cage but I don't know if they provide much down there. I am trying to figure out a better way to hang them without ripping the screen cage.
• Plants - pothos and philodendron currently, they're not large enough for the whole cage though. I'm continuously searching for a decent sized umbrella or money plant.
• Placement - it's in the bedroom, on a table against the wall, and the cage top reaches about eye level with me (I'm 5'5"). I'm sorry I don't have measurements at the moment.
• Location - I'm in central Illinois.

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a bit of time to go thru everything.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’ll put my feedback in bold and break this into two parts.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - female veiled chameleon, owned for about a month so far. Not sure exact age but I trust your estimation to be around 3-4 months
• Handling - infrequently, and only when she allows it. She's highly food motivated and she will come to the front of the cage while I prepare the food in the room, and if I leave the door open, she will climb out and often onto my hand/arm just to eat lol. I don't try to handle otherwise. Even though most veileds will never be very friendly, it’s always best to work on building trust. This is a great blog. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/ I’ve had my girl for almost 5 years and while she is fierce, she knows she can trust that I’ll never harm her.
• Feeding - variety of bugs as noted in my first post, fed once daily with at least 2 types of insects. They're maintained on repashy bug grub, water crystals and fresh veggies and gutloaded with fresh veggies (bell peppers and squash plus a variety of seasonal veggies, depends on what's available) and leafy greens (no kale or spinach, I try to avoid high oxalate foods). I grind the food up and make frozen cubes out of it so the insects can't pick and choose as much lol. Also repashy superload. You are too awesome! That is perfect!
• Supplements - zoo med calcium without D3 every feeding except Saturdays, zoo med multivite and repashy supercal every other Saturday, interchangeably. (Should I switch from supercal to the zoomed calcium w/ D3? I've read recently that supercal might have too much D3, even if only used once every 2 weeks) There’s 4 different Supercals and you don’t say which you’re using. A good vet has once told me the meD is good to use for my girl, but that is the only time anyone has ever mentioned the Repashy MeD. I would definitely not use a HiD. If you want to make things easier, I would suggest getting some Repashy calcium Plus LoD which is a combination of your multivitamin and D3 and needs only to be used for one feeding every other week. All other feedings you use just the plain calcium without D3.
• Watering - Ive seen her drink in front of me, lately she moves towards the dripper when I'm not paying close attention but I don't actively see her drink most of the time. I don't know if she drank the first couple of weeks with me. Many chameleons are secret drinkers, so you are fortunate to have seen her drink. Usually we have to go by the color of urates to determine hydration status. All or mostly white/cream colored is well hydrated. A small bit of orange on one end is ok and sometimes can mean that she didn’t poo for a few days. All dark or orange is a sign of dehydration.
• I have a dripper I let run slowly for about an hour every day, and I mist the whole cage down after lights go off at night. I'm saving for a mistking system for a better automated system. Ok. I can suggest a couple of changes here. First is to replicate natural hydration thru night time fogging, but only if your night temps are reliably below at least 68 and no higher than 70. You would run a cool mist humidifier for a few hours at night, so that she’s be breathing in the vapor and wake to a nice ‘dew’ on her leaves. The other is to mist for at least 2 minutes right before lights go on and off. Once lights are off, chameleons usually go to sleep so aren’t able to drink. Mist Kings make life soooo much easier!
• Fecal Description - never been tested, they are fairly large and solid, not exactly dry but not mushy or slimy either. Urates are mostly white, usually with a little bit of yellow where it connects to the feces It’s always a good idea to have a fecal done. Besides ensuring your cham is parasite free, it’s a nice opportunity to meet our exotics vet.
• History - I got her from a local family owned pet store, they don't specialize in reptiles but I believe they provide above-averagr care compared to many other pet stores. It could be considered bare minimum if it was care provided by a pet owner, though. Pepper had been there for a few weeks before I decided to get her and she was well fed and hydrated when I got her. That’s cool. Do you know where they got her from? My guess might be someone who decided to breed theirs and ended up with babies they had no idea what to do with.

 

[MissSkittles]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen reptibreeze cage, currently the 16 x 16 x 30. I'm planning to upgrade in the next couple of weeks, I have another 16 x 16 x 30 enclosure that I was planning to connect for a 32 x 16 x 30 cage, but wondering your thoughts on if that will be a little too small for her as an adult? I think that will be fine. While she won’t have all of the height and depth, she will have more width. I can think of a way to make it seem taller, but it involves a custom built planter box and going bioactive. If you or someone you know can build you the planter box for her enclosure to sit on, we can help you with the bioactive set up. It would also serve as her lay bin. Regardless of that, you will want to make sure her enclosure is high enough so that she is able to look down upon her world from her basking branch.
• Lighting - a 24" reptisun t5-ho 5.0 and a 25w incandescent light bulb for basking. The uv light overhangs the width of the cage some but I figured it would be better to get the longer one for when I moved her into an adult cage haha. Both are on for 12 hours daily, from 9am to 9pm Perfect!
• Temperature - I use two probe digital thermometers, ambient lower temps are around 74-76 F with the basking spot around ~86 F at the very closest. 86 is too hot The spot she usually likes to bask is about 83.F This is a bit too warm too, but is the absolute max I’d have for a girl or a baby. Since you already have a lower watt bulb, try raising it a couple of inches above the screen to lower the temp. Wire baskets from the dollar store are great for this use.
• Humidity - I have 2 digital hygrometers and they have been sitting at about 35% in the middle of the day recently, but I just bought an opaque shower curtain yesterday and wrapped it around the back and both sides because 35 seemed a little low. 35 is great! The ideal daytime range is between 30-50%. When I get home from work I will check the hygrometers again and see if it's holding humidity better. Primarily I mist the cage for humidity and have the pothos and philodendron at the bottom of the cage but I don't know if they provide much down there. I am trying to figure out a better way to hang them without ripping the screen cage. I can help with this! I’ll add a seperate reply.
• Plants - pothos and philodendron currently, they're not large enough for the whole cage though. I'm continuously searching for a decent sized umbrella or money plant. It can be a challenge to find the plants we want and sometimes have to settle for what we can find. Maybe instead of those, you can find a nice weeping fig tree.
• Placement - it's in the bedroom, on a table against the wall, and the cage top reaches about eye level with me (I'm 5'5"). I'm sorry I don't have measurements at the moment. I would raise it about 1’ or so, just to make her feel more secure.
• Location - I'm in central Illinois.

 

[MissSkittles]

It is a challenge to hang branches, vines and especially plants from a screen enclosure. There are Dragon Ledges, but I’m not sure that they come in the size you’d need. In the past, I’ve made a little scaffold out of branches that I’ve attached to the frame with wires. This was only able to hold branches though. Then I happened to try using some scrap garden trellis and that has worked great. I cut it to size to fit the inside side panels and back, taking into account the space where they’ll butt against each other. I did file the sharp edges where I had cut and drilled tiny holes in the ends where needed. Then, using thin sturdy wire, I attached it to the frame of the enclosure. To prevent it from sliding down and for extra security/strength, I added a couple of tiny screws to each frame to secure some of the wires to. Put it all together and voila’! It might be easiest to dismantle the enclosure to do all of this. I do have double wide enclosures and cut a piece for each panel rather than having one piece span over two panels. Once it’s together, I do use some of the trellis holes to support branches and secure with zip ties, but it is awkward to do. It’s much better to attach a couple of sturdy branches vertically to the trellis that you can then attach your branches and things to. Pics below to illustrate. The 3rd is how it all looks completed in one of my bioactive double wides. The last pic I’m adding just fyi so you can better see the difference between the size enclosure that you have and a 2x2x4’ one. And yes, those are plastic plants and wooden dowels you see…I was just starting out and hadn’t learned much then.

 

[jannb]

From the size of your girls casque I’d say 4 months old. I would start reducing the feeders now.

 

[Peppered]

Thank you so much for all of this info, it's very helpful!!

Regarding the repashy calcium, the one I have is just called "Calcium Plus", with a leopard gecko on the label. It has 20,000 IU/lb of vitamin d3. I didn't realize but it also seems to be a multivitamin as well as the calcium and vitamin d3. I have zoo med calciums with and without d3, however, and I have reptivite without d3, so I could just swap the repashy out and use the zoo med products instead to be safe.

Watering/hydration: in the summer my night temps generally are at least 70, often between 72-74... is this too warm at night? and would you recommend using a cool mist humidifier for those temps? Just making sure I understood it correctly!

Regarding the pet store/her background, I'm not sure where exactly they get their animals from, but I know "generally" they are bought from a supplier of some kind... I'm not sure if she came from the supplier or not, though. I could ask next time I stop in?

Enclosure: I'm actually familiar with bioactive and have much of the supplies needed to set one up, though I've never attempted a less humid environment for one before. I'm used to glass, high-humidity enclosures lol. But aside from some more plants I can set this up I'm sure! I really like that idea and had been thinking of something similar for a while, since I knew I'd need a lay bin eventually...
I'll also raise the cage up and raise the basking lamp as well to get the temps down.

Plants: I'll check for one of those as well! It doesn't need to be an umbrella or money plant, they just seemed like the most used "main" plants for providing a big portion of coverage. I'm going to find the link again that I read about safe plants from and see if there are any others that might be more readily available here. Are the fake plants okay until I can get more live plants to provide more coverage?

Also thank you as well @jannb!! I suppose it would be best to gradually lessen the feeders/feedings over the course of a few weeks or so?
I was thinking something like... the next week or two, start limiting how much she gets per day, but fed every day still. The following weeks I'd start removing feeding days until we get to only 3-4 times a week. Does that sound about right?