Asleep with one eye completely OPEN and *NO* PUPIL showing!??

[EvilLost]

I tried taking a picture of him but the camera woke him up...as soon as I moved away he went back to sleep in the same position again so I will try in just a minute, but WHAT THE HELL?

Clark is asleep with ONE EYE OPEN and NO PUPIL showing (its just pure white). When he awoke his pupil quickly returned like normal, and now that he has gone back to sleep the pupil is gone again. His other eye is closed like normal.

Has anyone seen this before?

 

[ChameleonNerd]

it appears as if the devil has possessed your chameleon... i hope it does not have an eye infection or other eye complications. best of luck with a diagnosis.

 

[reptoman]

I have seen this when one of my baby panthers had some shed stuck in his eye. make sure you up the mistings with warm water and give him time to clean out his eyes really good. You might want to try putting him in the shower tomorrow on a plant with slightly warmer than tepid water and aim the shower stream at the wall so the water hits him and the plant indirectly. The extra humidity will help. The one I saw doing this was ok after extra mistings. Hopefully thats all there is to it.

 

[EvilLost]

I have tried the shower thing in the past, I absolutely can't do it. My guy *HATES* getting wet, he closes his eyes and just climbs without looking (until he falls off the top of his plant). And no, I am not putting him directly in the water at all but in the side ....he does the same thing when I mist; I have to mist his ficus when he is standing on the hibiscus and then he will climb over to drink...if he gets wet, he won't even think about drinking he will be too busy running !


I have applied terramycin to his eye in the past for a stuck shed issue, but I don't see anything in the eye (this has been a recurring problem since I got him 2 months ago). I will upload pics momentarily...

 

[Seeco]

Who did you get the cham from? Most likely the eyelid opening is defective and does not seal completely.

 

[Elizadolots]

Is it bad that I really want to see a picture of this?

I suspect Seeco is right, the eyelid opening is defective and won't close. If that's the case, it's probably not a huge health issue.

 

[EvilLost]

@Seeco: I got the cham from LanceCham on these boards. I have had him for 2 months now without any problems except a slight recurring eye issue; i'm not sure if it is/could be related or not??

I uploaded a picture....while I was taking the picture Clark woke up again and moved his eye. I purposely did a test by attracting his attention 360 degrees around him and he rotated his eye all around all. He has since fallen back asleep and his eye is normal (although in the past I have had several instances where his eyelid does not close completely, but stays open just a tiny bit) also i have had a recurring eye issue since i got him where his eye bloats up and he acts like something is in it...I apply terramycin to it but whether or not I do it usually goes away in a day anyway so I'm not sure if the terramycin helps at all

he exhibits no problems, is active, eats, drinks (although past few days he hasnt eaten much he should be preparing for a shed) and has good coloration.

 

[jojackson]

Anyone know much about the anatomy of a veiled eye? looks like either the orbit (eyeball) itself is turned or your seeing a nictitating membrane (do veileds have them?)
Interestingly while reading on chameleon eye anatomy I found this...

n some chameleon species as well as some geckos and the oscellated skink (Ablepharus sp.) the eyelids have fused to produce a circular, immobile and transparent dermal aperture called a spectacle. It create an impervious barrier to topically applied medications.

http://en.wikivet.net/Lizard_Eye

Apparently this includes panthers (furcifer)
I wonder how much terrimycin etc is totally wasted? note: I make no comment on the validity of the above. Any vets care to respond?

 

[EvilLost]

@jojackson: that is very interesting, but I don't think any terramycin is wasted still. From my understanding, the terramycin is meant to be a non-irritating gel that simply helps them "scoop out" whatever is stuck in their eye. In other words, the Terramycin doesn't need to interact with the eye at all, its just a goop that helps roll around in there.

I could be totally wrong though...


Although that doesn't directly answer why his eyelid was open, it does give me some comfort knowing his eye was still somewhat protected even without the eyelid

 

[jojackson]

Given its an antibiotic I think its intended to interact. certainly it will do so with tissues surrounding the eye, lids etc I guess It depends on type of infection.
perhaps scratched cornea since the brill (eyecap) would be breached and open to infection.
Its a broadspectrum type (read blanket drug) which covers most eye issues. (antibacterial)

Terramycin (oxytetracycline HCI) is an antibiotic, bright yellow in color, possessing potent antimicrobial activity. It is one of the most versatile of the broad-spectrum antibiotics, and is effective in the treatment of infections due to gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, both aerobic and anaerobic, spirochetes, rickettsiae, and certain of the larger viruses. Polymyxin B Sulfate is one of a group of related antibiotics derived from Bacillus Polymyxa. The polymyxins are rapidly bactericidal, this action being exclusively against gram-negative bacteria.

The broad-spectrum effectiveness of Terramycin against both gram-positive and gram-negative organisms is enhanced by the particular effectiveness of polymyxin B against infections associated with gram-negative organisms, especially those due to Pseudomonas aeruginosa, where polymyxin B is the antibiotic of choice. In addition, there is evidence to indicate that polymyxin B sulfate possesses some antifungal activity, The combined antibacterial effect of Terramycin plus polymyxin is at least additive and in many instances, an actual synergistic action is obtained.

Contains: Terramycin Ophthalmic Ointment with Polymyxin B Sulfate is a suspension of oxytetracycline hydrochloride and polymyxin B sulfate in a special petrolatum base. Each gram of ointment contains oxytetracycline HCI equivalent to 5 mg of oxytetracycline and 10,000 units of polymyxin B as the sulfate.

Indications: Terramycin Ophthalmic Ointment with Polymyxin B Sulfate is indicated for the prophylaxis and local treatment of superficial ocular infections due to oxytetracycline- and polymyxin- sensitive organisms, including infections due to streptococci, rickettsiae, E. Coli, and A. aerogenes, such as conjunctivitis, keratitis, pink eye, corneal ulcer, blepharitis in dogs, cats, cattle, sheep, and horses; ocular infections due to secondary bacterial complications of distemper in dogs, and bacterial inflammatory conditions which may occur secondary to other infectious diseases in the above species.

Administration: Terramycin Ophthalmic Ointment with Polymyxin B Sulfate should be administered topically to the eye 2-4 times daily.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9674

Just an interesting question of effectiveness given the statement above. I like to question things.

 

[Elizadolots]

Unless there's some sort of lens over the opening in the lids, I can't see that it could be impervious. I mean, isn't it sort of an accepted idea that they do that whole scrunch, pucker, smush thing with their eyes as part of the cleaning process? If there were an impervious barrier, it wouldn't be possible to clean the eye out that way. Also, they wouldn't flinch when they were misted because nothing could get into their eyes.

I'd be interested to see what Chris Anderson or Dave Weldon thinks of this idea.

 

[jojackson]

I think thats the idea Eliza, that the spectacle protects the cornea. The cleaning thing they do ejects debris from the surface of the eye. The spectacle does not act as a barrier to the inside of the turret, its not 'fixed' between the lids like a pane of glass in a window.
Any topical medication would get into the turret and therefor be effective against bacteria inside there. Im thinking not so much 'impervious' as resistant.

 

[Elizadolots]

Yes, I suspect there were translation errors with the article.

 

[jojackson]

Still like to hear much more about chameleon eye anatomy and eye issues, this is an area of
husbandry/care shrouded in vague guesses.
Im not nearly satisfied. Can't find anything online or in my books about it,
How about it CF, where are the experts, scientists, vets?
Eye issues are overwhelmingly common threads here and mostly remain unanswered.

 

[buzz]

commenting on the shower and him running around. My veiled did that to he hated getting wet but what I did was I made sure that one side of the tree was getting wet and the other side would be either completely dry or has a very fine mist blowing over it and I would put him on that side and he would walk and find his nitch where he was most comfortable. But watch him the entire time the first few times until he gets use to it. My veiled got use to it and loved it. just keep trying different ways.

 

[EvilLost]

@Buzz: thats exactly what I do when I handspray him. if he wants to drink he waits for me to finish spraying and then comes out of hiding and starts drinking.. :\

@jojackson: Good point on the Terramycin. My comment was directed via my only personal use of the drug and was admittedly very narrow. The way I have generally used it has been just to "clean out" his eye similar to the process Eliza was describing


Eye issues do seem to be the next area of husbandry that the boards/keepers as a whole should start to focus on; it feels like most of the other "major" issues are handled but the boards are riddled with eye problems with no real answers!

 

[lizardstudios]

hello, sorry to raise the dead here, but i have the same issue and this is the closest thing i could find to my problem. i was just wondering if there is any treatment and if your chameleon ended up dead? or if you needed to go to the vet or if he was totally fine. im incredibly worried rn.
thanks.

 

[Lennoncham]

hello, sorry to raise the dead here, but i have the same issue and this is the closest thing i could find to my problem. i was just wondering if there is any treatment and if your chameleon ended up dead? or if you needed to go to the vet or if he was totally fine. im incredibly worried rn.
thanks.

hi. Can you start a new thread with pictures. The Cham in this thread it appears to be their third eye lid. Can’t say if it’s the same for your Cham.

 

[lizardstudios]

hi. Can you start a new thread with pictures. The Cham in this thread it appears to be their third eye lid. Can’t say if it’s the same for your Cham.

i actually just fixed the problem myself. i will make a new thread if anymore problems occur though.