Another C. crypticum?

I had a few more C. brevicornis arrive recently, and I was looking at two of the females side-by-side today, and thought, "They sure don't look alike." Then it clicked--I believe it's another C. crypticum female. I could be wrong, but I do think it's crypticum.

The other crypticum female I received originally is doing really well too.

IMG_5961.jpg
 

Motherlode Chameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
That does look similar to your first Calumma crypticum female. I even pulled out my Third edition Glaw and Vences and have to say the female in the photo appears to be a female Calumma crypticum. It is difficult to say for certain though as even the pictures in Glaw and Vences shows some variation.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
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leedragon

Chameleon Enthusiast
when you got a cham, and you don´t know which it is, who you´re gonna call? Crhist Andersson!:rolleyes: yeah I know, but I had too
 

Chris Anderson

Dr. House of Chameleons
Staff member
Hi Sam,

It is very difficult to differentiate females of C. brevicorne from C. crypticum. That said, I'm not convinced this one is a female C. crypticum and think it more closely resembles C. brevicorne. The dorsal crest in female C. crypticum usually have a periodic pattern, while this animal has a very consistent dorsal crest. If you look at the dorsal crest from the female in your last thread (https://www.chameleonforums.com/calumma-crypticum-139477/) you can see that it has enlarged conical scales every so often along the length of the dorsal crest, while in this female the size is consistent throughout. This same periodicity is seen in the female C. crypticum photographed in the book Jeremy is referencing, while the female C. brevicorne has a much more consistent dorsal crest, like this animal. Here are some photos of other female C. crypticum for your reference as well:

http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/1172066
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/628486
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/1172300
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/619251
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/183671

Can you post photos of the female C. brevicorne that looks so different from this one?

Chris
 
Hi Sam,

It is very difficult to differentiate females of C. brevicorne from C. crypticum. That said, I'm not convinced this one is a female C. crypticum and think it more closely resembles C. brevicorne. The dorsal crest in female C. crypticum usually have a periodic pattern, while this animal has a very consistent dorsal crest. If you look at the dorsal crest from the female in your last thread (https://www.chameleonforums.com/calumma-crypticum-139477/) you can see that it has enlarged conical scales every so often along the length of the dorsal crest, while in this female the size is consistent throughout. This same periodicity is seen in the female C. crypticum photographed in the book Jeremy is referencing, while the female C. brevicorne has a much more consistent dorsal crest, like this animal. Here are some photos of other female C. crypticum for your reference as well:

http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/1172066
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/628486
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/1172300
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/619251
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/183671

Can you post photos of the female C. brevicorne that looks so different from this one?

Chris

Hi Chris,

I was hoping you'd see my post and comment. I will try to get a picture of the two next to each other to see what you think. I actually might just take pictures of all my females (received two more today), just to see if you have any thoughts.

Thanks,
Sam
 

Motherlode Chameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
It is very difficult to differentiate females of C. brevicorne from C. crypticum. That said, I'm not convinced this one is a female C. crypticum and think it more closely resembles C. brevicorne. The dorsal crest in female C. crypticum usually have a periodic pattern, while this animal has a very consistent dorsal crest. If you look at the dorsal crest from the female in your last thread (https://www.chameleonforums.com/calumma-crypticum-139477/) you can see that it has enlarged conical scales every so often along the length of the dorsal crest, while in this female the size is consistent throughout. This same periodicity is seen in the female C. crypticum photographed in the book Jeremy is referencing, while the female C. brevicorne has a much more consistent dorsal crest, like this animal.

Chris

The size of the conicals/tubercle along the dorsal crest of this species shows variation from males to females. The males in Glaw and Vences photos have large conicals/tubercles. While the females having small conicals/tubercles with large conicals/tubercles periodically spaced down the dorsal crest. This is interesting sexual dimorphism/variation among Calumma. Plus this is good that we have an opportunity to have a look at this group (and newly described species 2006 for Calumma crypticum) of Madagascar Elephant Eared Chameleons first hand.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
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I found an interesting photograph (below) at this website. The description of the three photographs says, "Calumma brevicorne with attributes of Calumma crypticum, in the primary forest of Vatoharanana."

Does anyone know if perhaps brevicorne and crypticum cross-breed in nature?

Calumma_crypticum_555.jpg
 

Chris Anderson

Dr. House of Chameleons
Staff member
That is a photo of C. crypticum. I helped Valerie identify some of the photos on that page. At the time C. crypticum had just recently been described and some of the characters the species was described on were showing themselves to be less than clearly diagnostic. In this case I believe it was the number of scale rows on the rostral protuberances in lateral view were suggestive of C. brevicorne based on the published key, while other characters were suggestive of C. crypticum. Since we have learned that C. crypticum is more variable in morphology than some of the characters originally described in the species description. I've not seen anything to suggest there is hybridization between the two species.

Chris
 

leedragon

Chameleon Enthusiast
That is a photo of C. crypticum. I helped Valerie identify some of the photos on that page. At the time C. crypticum had just recently been described and some of the characters the species was described on were showing themselves to be less than clearly diagnostic. In this case I believe it was the number of scale rows on the rostral protuberances in lateral view were suggestive of C. brevicorne based on the published key, while other characters were suggestive of C. crypticum. Since we have learned that C. crypticum is more variable in morphology than some of the characters originally described in the species description. I've not seen anything to suggest there is hybridization between the two species.

Chris

I read somewhere that the reason they wheren´t any cb brevicornis where because the pairs where not c brevicornis but what later will be placed as different species ( back then it was though that the difference where just localities) so the would lay eggs but they would never hatch, so if that was true hybridization should not be possible,or I am wrong?:confused:
 
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