All Reptile owners please watch!

[Nursemaia]

Oh look a lightning bug, NOOOOOOOOOO spit it out, spit it out!

Then again one of my darlings at a bee once...

I do yell at my dogs "WHAT ARE YOU EATING DROP IT" but they will eat trash.

I bet your darling was just fine after eating that bee too. We're all terrible cham parents and CPS (Chameleon Protective Services) should be called on us for letting them eat such potentially dangerous bugs.

I'm one of the worst parents out there, not only do I give them wild bugs, I leave my chameleons outside unsupervised too. I've kicked them outside for the summer and told them don't come back in until it gets below 50° at night.

In all seriousness, they are safe out there in iron cages that nothing can break into unless they have opposable thumbs, I have rigged up my misters outside, and they have plenty of shade and live plants in the enclosures to get out of the sun if they so choose.

 

[Robo]

I do yell at my dogs "WHAT ARE YOU EATING DROP IT" but they will eat trash.

I bet your darling was just fine after eating that bee too. We're all terrible cham parents and CPS (Chameleon Protective Services) should be called on us for letting them eat such potentially dangerous bugs.

I'm one of the worst parents out there, not only do I give them wild bugs, I leave my chameleons outside unsupervised too. I've kicked them outside for the summer and told them don't come back in until it gets below 50° at night.

In all seriousness, they are safe out there in iron cages that nothing can break into unless they have opposable thumbs, I have rigged up my misters outside, and they have plenty of shade and live plants in the enclosures to get out of the sun if they so choose.

I Lol at This because i can relate so much! Haha

 

[Andee]

hey guys thanks for taking the time to explain some of it. Hope you all didn't take it as me being combative. I never considered feeding wild bugs here, my main concern is just the pollution and garbage around. I'm sure chams in the wild come in contact with pesticides and such, but I just want to keep them away from crap if I can help it. I'd be afraid of feeding a dangerous bug or something, but maybe next time I go up camp I'll see if theres anything interesting around.

Question about parasites, we always hear that crickets carry them, what other feeders are likely to carry them? Could you lower parasite risk by not feeding crickets? Luckily, I haven't had to deal with them yet, but I have fully planted enclosures all in one room, I'd hate to have to tear it all apart. I plan on breeding in the future and one thing that worries me is having a parasite outbreak.

You can lower a lot of risk by just feeding healthier kept crickets or by feeding not crickets at all. Crickets are one of the worst carriers for pinworms. But a lot of roach species can carry them to. And flies can. Just know your sources and know you can trust them.

 

[jamest0o0]

Roaches all from Nick barta, crickets from ghanns, and flies from Nick bartas and/or josh's frogs. All seem to have good reputations so hopefully I'm good there. If anyone knows better, mind PMing me or just telling me here?

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

You can lower a lot of risk by just feeding healthier kept crickets or by feeding not crickets at all. Crickets are one of the worst carriers for pinworms. But a lot of roach species can carry them to. And flies can. Just know your sources and know you can trust them.

Andee are you going too start breeding crickets ?

 

[Andee]

I will... but I am working on getting the perfect set up for all new bugs and current bugs I bring in. So crickets are going to be on a seperate thermostat from everyone else because they need specific heat temps and photoperiods to get what I want in the end. I will be buying heat tape in the long run for everyone because it will save me at least $20 dollars on my electric bill if not more a month. I'm not in any rush to set up XD sorry guys. Kristen didn't you want to know when my ad was back up? Because it is technically (so not a plug sorry for anyone who takes it that way I can edit this out if wanted) but it's very limited for the health of my colonies.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I will... but I am working on getting the perfect set up for all new bugs and current bugs I bring in. So crickets are going to be on a seperate thermostat from everyone else because they need specific heat temps and photoperiods to get what I want in the end. I will be buying heat tape in the long run for everyone because it will save me at least $20 dollars on my electric bill if not more a month. I'm not in any rush to set up XD sorry guys. Kristen didn't you want to know when my ad was back up? Because it is technically (so not a plug sorry for anyone who takes it that way I can edit this out if wanted) but it's very limited for the health of my colonies.

Yes for silks actually . I just feed the rest of mine off , I have great moths right now so it will be a bit before worms . I had too order last week . I have a awesome woman down the street that breeds bugs I get most of mine from her but does not do silks . Frances does not like roaches so I have too keep crickets all our other babies will eat anything lol . I'm totally freaked though now with Janet's experience .

 

[Carlton]

You can lower a lot of risk by just feeding healthier kept crickets or by feeding not crickets at all. Crickets are one of the worst carriers for pinworms. But a lot of roach species can carry them to. And flies can. Just know your sources and know you can trust them.

Ever heard of a thing called "risk management"? You can reduce the risks from feeder insects by:
a: buy from better sources and keep them clean once you have them
b: don't overcrowd commercial feeders, don't feed ones that seem sick or weak
c: collect wild ranging insects from areas you are pretty certain no pesticides or agricultural chemicals have been used, or try to find out what might have been sprayed recently.
d: If you can, keep wildcaught insects for a few days and feed them a clean diet so they can get rid of junk they might have eaten in the "wild".
e: keep feeder foods dry, sealed, fresh to avoid molds and fungi.

 

[Andee]

No I haven't heard of that sadly XD, but it is pretty much what I recommend right?

 

[Andee]

Yes for silks actually . I just feed the rest of mine off , I have great moths right now so it will be a bit before worms . I had too order last week . I have a awesome woman down the street that breeds bugs I get most of mine from her but does not do silks . Frances does not like roaches so I have too keep crickets all our other babies will eat anything lol . I'm totally freaked though now with Janet's experience .

Ah silks definitely aren't ready yet XD sorry about that, these ones grow slowly.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Ah silks definitely aren't ready yet XD sorry about that, these ones grow slowly.

Tell me about it .

 

[Andee]

Tell me about it .

The hybrids take longer to hatch for me for some reason, but their cocoons are so so pretty <3 so yellow all the time.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

The hybrids take longer to hatch for me for some reason, but their cocoons are so so pretty <3 so yellow all the time.

Mine seem to take a long time as well . Their not hybrids .

 

[Remkon]

I was thinking the exact opposite because you city Folk are a bunch of wusses.

This 'city folk' aint no wus!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I see different behavior in my chams when I offer wild insects vs my regular feeders. When I offer a katydid or grasshopper or whatever I catch they eat eagerly and hunt it down quickly. They don't eat with the same enthusiasm with my regular feeders and it's not like I offer only 1. I use at least 5 different regular feeders but they don't eat them with the same gusto as a wild caught bug. Besides I look at it this way, we're all worried about their exposure to pesticides, I agree we should should mitigate the exposure, but do you really think the chameleons in the wild live in a bubble where there not exposed to pesticides? Even the ones in the most remote parts of the world are not immune and have some exposure to pollution and haven't died. A few wild caught insects I catch over the summer is pretty low risk in my opinion, especially since I live in the middle of the forest and there's no spraying of chemicals close by. Sure some bugs probably travel and may have been exposed but it hasn't killed them in previous years.

I would feed only wild insects if I could. Far, far superior nutritionally.

I just lost a lot of my collection to aflatoxicosis that was likely caused by farmed crickets fed/kept in contaminated feed/bedding. Parasites are nothing to deadly toxins!

The necropsy of my captive bred babies that succumbed to the aflatoxin showed a heavy parasite load. They had only been fed fruit flies and farmed crickets.

Crickets are often kept in deplorable, filthy conditions. They are poorly fed. Farmed crickets are fed on basically chick starter that costs about $5 for 50 pounds--retail. There can't be a lot of nutrition in a bag of feed that I can buy at the feed store for $5 or $6.

I agree with @Nursemaia --there is a decided difference in the level of my chameleon's desire to eat a wild-caught insect versus a farmed one.

You are going to get parasites in farmed crickets. You might get parasites in wild insects. Just because one parasite is pretty dramatic and gross doesn't mean it can infect your chameleon. Most parasites are species specific.

 

[jamest0o0]

Right I think it's agreed we'd all feed wild caught *if we could* magic words lol

 

[Carlton]

No I haven't heard of that sadly XD, but it is pretty much what I recommend right?

Ooops, sorry Andee this wasn't aimed at you!! I just meant it to the thread in general.

 

[jamest0o0]

And I believe that healthy wild caught is better, but there's no factual evidence as far as I see, just speculation. How many wild Chams probably die from eating something not good for them?

 

[Andee]

I am not sure on numbers who die, but we control what they eat so we don't have to worry about that. Most toxic things taste bitter. I also posted in the other thread that is on a similar topic, scientific differences that have been noticed in nutrient levels between captive raised and wild insects. There is at least one link in that thread that should provide a lot of help on that matter. I can find more if needed later. But a lot of female wild chams also die from over producing of eggs... like at their first or second year... so there are a lot of factors in that besides just diet. There was some other point I was gonna touch on but my brain is relatively off today XD so sorry.

 

[jamest0o0]

I'm just interested because if like to see if maybe I should look into incorporating wild caught bugs. I've never really given it a thought, but it might be fun to go collect some