After one month our cage is developing nicely

[blackhawk007]

So the tropical trees are finally arriving in our area. I have a hibiscus tree, hibiscus bush and a gardenia.The wooden ladders are now gone and much progress has been made, well I feel so at least. Asside from the controversial mulch on the bottom, what does everyone think? I only cup feed so the mulch is staying for the time being. I currently have 4 vines left over and am trying to figure out how to integrate them.

 

[carol5208]

cage is looking nice but honestly substrate(the mulch on the bottom )is frowned upon and I will give you a few reasons why. First and foremost if your feeders go loose and they end up on the bottom of the cage, well your chameleon could shoot his tongue at the prey and stick to the mulch and injest it. This could cause a choking hazard or an impaction which could lead to death.It has happened to other members. Secondly, your cage is going to get wet and so is the mulch. It is going to get soggy eventually and that could breed bacteria and conditions that could make the cage too damp which can lead to Respiratory Infections. Lastly, feeders can burrow down in there and hide. I know it looks nice but it is just not the best option for the cage bottom. Leave it bare and it will be the most sanitary and safe way to go.So aside from the feeders, there are a couple of other things to consider. Chameleons are VERY prone to respiratory infections if the conditions are not ideal. Just something to think about.

 

[blackhawk007]

cage is looking nice but honestly substrate(the mulch on the bottom )is frowned upon and I will give you a few reasons why. First and foremost if you let your feeders go loose and they end up on the bottom of the cage, well your chameleon could shoot his tongue at the prey and stick to the mulch and injest it. This could cause a choking hazard or an impaction which could lead to death.It has happened to other members. Secondly, your cage is going to get wet and so is the mulch. It is going to get soggy eventually and that could breed bacteria and conditions that could make the cage too damp which can lead to Respiratory Infections. Lastly, feeders can burrow down in there and hide. I know it looks nice but it is just not the best option for the cage bottom. Leave it bare and it will be the most sanitary and safe way to go.

I completely agree with your reasons Carol. I actually will not let the feeders run free, ever. I really like to control how much he eats each day. I don't want to risk feeders laying dead in a place that I may not notice. And the sliding screen door has a 1/4" gap that I allowed for smooth sliding. The box that the bottom of the cage is on is actually a large planter I built that the trees are planted in. This creates a permanent digging area for and loose feeders. All of these reasons have made me cup and hand feed only. I know that many like the chams to preserve their hunting instinct. The best I can do for this is place the cup at different locations each time. But as of yet he runs for the cup every time he sees it, so I guess that does nothing for this instinct. If there is ever a time when he stops eating I also want to know right away so I can start monitoring him.

Please don't think that I am blowing you off Carol. I feel you have made several valid points that I do support and will design the next enclosure around your points. For now I plan to continue feeding him the same way and closely watching for any mold that may build up. So far the mulch has been drying out within 45 min of the mister turning on. I know this is just the top that looks bone dry, but its a very thin layer of mulch to cover up the vermiculite. The other good thing that I have noticed is that he is never seen in the lower 12" of the cage. I know this can change at any point. But closely monitoring a chameleon is the whole reason I got him in the first place.

I do want to thank you for the input. The last thing that I want to do is have a photo up like this have someone think that mulch is a good thing never having taken these issues into consideration. I acknowledge risks and am doing what I can to try and mitigate these risks, for now.

 

[Hdale85]

What about putting dirt in the bottom and actually planting your plants? Is that not ok still? It's something I was considering as I don't really like the pots just sitting in the bottom lol.

 

[blackhawk007]

What about putting dirt in the bottom and actually planting your plants? Is that not ok still? It's something I was considering as I don't really like the pots just sitting in the bottom lol.

I chose to use vermiculite, its kinda a synthetic dirt, kinda. I can't say if this is the best route. But the route that I am trying for now. I got the stuff from my local garden store. Its clean and free of pests, and this was a priority for me.

 

[JennaMarie]

So many new hiding spaces in there! Looking good!

 

[jojothefirst]

more of a question than a suggestion.......
wouldnt it be better to have thinner branches/walkways as surely it would be difficult for a cham to grip around those?

 

[reptilover]

You could always put a removable layer of screen over the substrate to subtract all problems except dampness.. it obviously would have to be.cut to fit around the tree bases but would be very good in the way of peice of mind. I've heard of chams eating substrate when they feel they need more nutrients. Thats a quick route to Impaction or choking that I would never risk..

 

[reptilover]

more of a question than a suggestion.......
wouldnt it be better to have thinner branches/walkways as surely it would be difficult for a cham to grip around those?

Naa there grips so.strong and nails so sharp. My cham can climb up my arm no problem. Also he has lots of smaller vine options for the cham. I really think its a gorgeous set up.. minus the substrate

 

[EvilLost]

your cage is going to get wet and so is the mulch. It is going to get soggy eventually and that could breed bacteria and conditions that could make the cage too damp which can lead to Respiratory Infections.

If one is using a glass cage with improper setup, this is extremely correct.

However, this is not necessarily true if you correctly setup a drainage layer, especially in a screen setup. If your substrate is sitting on the bottom of your drainage, then yes it will absorb the water; however if you properly drain this will not happen. Frog vivaria are setup to be completely closed (glass) and 100% humid environments and they can go 5-10 years when properly setup without soil issues (similarly, consider a proper pygmy chameleon setup, same issue); why would our open air setups have bacteria problems so easily? My bet is that 9 times out of 10, the setup is lacking aeration or drainage (ie, it isn't properly setup).


I personally do not mist even remotely as much as some of you (I mist 45 seconds every 1.5 hours) but I have never had these issues. If you are finding your soil to be soggy, try adding 1" of gravel or LECA (hydroton) to the bottom of your planters so that your soil is not sitting on the bottom wicking up the water which hasn't drained yet. If your soil is still soggy, try adding orchid bark or LECA/hydroton directly into your soil mixture; this will increase aeration and drainage.....normally you only want to do this for plants that need more air, however if you are misting very heavily leading to overly soggy soil, this can help your soil breathe a bit better.


The arguments regarding feeders, impaction, etc. are all valid but the OP already clarified that she only cupfeeds so that isn't really an issue here imho.

 

[carol5208]

If one is using a glass cage with improper setup, this is extremely correct.

However, this is not necessarily true if you correctly setup a drainage layer, especially in a screen setup. If your substrate is sitting on the bottom of your drainage, then yes it will absorb the water; however if you properly drain this will not happen. Frog vivaria are setup to be completely closed (glass) and 100% humid environments and they can go 5-10 years when properly setup without soil issues (similarly, consider a proper pygmy chameleon setup, same issue); why would our open air setups have bacteria problems so easily? My bet is that 9 times out of 10, the setup is lacking aeration or drainage (ie, it isn't properly setup).


I personally do not mist even remotely as much as some of you (I mist 45 seconds every 1.5 hours) but I have never had these issues. If you are finding your soil to be soggy, try adding 1" of gravel or LECA (hydroton) to the bottom of your planters so that your soil is not sitting on the bottom wicking up the water which hasn't drained yet. If your soil is still soggy, try adding orchid bark or LECA/hydroton directly into your soil mixture; this will increase aeration and drainage.....normally you only want to do this for plants that need more air, however if you are misting very heavily leading to overly soggy soil, this can help your soil breathe a bit better.


The arguments regarding feeders, impaction, etc. are all valid but the OP already clarified that she only cupfeeds so that isn't really an issue here imho.

yes, this is true about the glass versus screen more so. I live in FLA and we use alot of mulch down here for landscape, granted it is very humid, but you should see what the mulch looks like after awhile getting wet from the rain.When you over turn it, it it actually has some type of fungus growing on it. I just figured I would not want that stuff in any cage of mine. This is just my opinion and everyone is free to do what they want. Blackhawk no offense taken I was just trying to point out some potential hazards.

 

[blackhawk007]

more of a question than a suggestion.......
wouldnt it be better to have thinner branches/walkways as surely it would be difficult for a cham to grip around those?

The branches are specifically for reptiles. They are soft wood and not smooth. They have many edges and grooves throughout. He is on top of one basking next to a thinner vine right now. I also made an attempt to have the thinner vines higher up just in case.

You could always put a removable layer of screen over the substrate to subtract all problems except dampness.. it obviously would have to be.cut to fit around the tree bases but would be very good in the way of peice of mind. I've heard of chams eating substrate when they feel they need more nutrients. Thats a quick route to Impaction or choking that I would never risk..

I agree and have thought about going this route. But screen would further restrict the lateral air flow across the mulch, delaying the drying time. It would remove the ingestion risks. But would for sure contribute to a mold issue, and make it difficult to inspect the mulch for mold. Its a good overall idea, just not for this exact setup I think. I like the current rate that the wood dries out.

If one is using a glass cage with improper setup, this is extremely correct.

However, this is not necessarily true if you correctly setup a drainage layer, especially in a screen setup. If your substrate is sitting on the bottom of your drainage, then yes it will absorb the water; however if you properly drain this will not happen. Frog vivaria are setup to be completely closed (glass) and 100% humid environments and they can go 5-10 years when properly setup without soil issues (similarly, consider a proper pygmy chameleon setup, same issue); why would our open air setups have bacteria problems so easily? My bet is that 9 times out of 10, the setup is lacking aeration or drainage (ie, it isn't properly setup).

The arguments regarding feeders, impaction, etc. are all valid but the OP already clarified that she only cupfeeds so that isn't really an issue here imho.

I do have a layered system in the planting box. From top to bottom, 1/2" mulch, 8" vermiculite, 1/4" carbon, and 3/4" gravel on the bottom. The tub in of a concave stature with a center 1" drain covered with a layer of screen to prevent clogging. Directly under the drain is a 45 gallon tub to collect the water. This setup allows me to hear and/or see the water draining to know when I have watered enough or too much. If I see nothing coming out after a normal mist then I know to inspect for clogs. Is this perfect, oh no. But so far it has accomplished what I am looking for and I understand that changes may need to be made. But these are all things I enjoy perfecting. What guy doesn't like to make things his own and then tinker with them, as long as its not at the expense of my cham.

yes, this is true about the glass versus screen more so. I live in FLA and we use alot of mulch down here for landscape, granted it is very humid, but you should see what the mulch looks like after awhile getting wet from the rain.When you over turn it, it it actually has some type of fungus growing on it. I just figured I would not want that stuff in any cage of mine. This is just my opinion and everyone is free to do what they want. Blackhawk no offense taken I was just trying to point out some potential hazards.

You opinion is always welcome. I would not have posted if I did not want these real issues discussed. Just because I feel that I have taken these issues seriously and am trying to mitigate them, does not mean they are not good points. Anyone that reads this post looking for pros/cons will clearly benefit from you bringing these up. I'm glad there was no offense. I am not the best at typing as diplomatic as my through are at that time.