affection

[montysmommy]

hey everyone, just wanted to get your opinion on this because myself, i dont believe it. Ive been recently searching alot about chams showing affection and apparently they dont show it. I just feel the internet makes them look like heartless animals. of course they arent like other pets but I cant believe they wouldnt love their owner! my little girl Monty is a nice sweet girl she has never been mad at me or hissed at me! She sleeps on me, climbs on my face my hair and just stays there even during the day she just stays on me and chills. I have to admit people mas find this gross but I do kiss her not on the mouth!! But under her head and on the side and she closes her eyes and just doesnt move, stays a light colour and in general just doesnt show any signs that she wouldnt like it. Im just very confused and a lil heartbroken that she wouldnt love, i cant believe it you know! shes always a happy light colour. have a good day guys!

 

[elizaann2]

Hello! What a beautiful girl you have! I also have a female veiled, they are amazing creatures.

Unfortunately, chameleons are unable to feel love like we do. Love is a 'pack or herd animal' ability and as chameleon's are not 'pack or herd animals', they literally do not have that part of the brain that allows them to feel love. At best, we are able to build trust with our chameleons but that is about it. In the wild once they hatch, they immediately disperse, they do not stick together. We may see a male and female stick together after mating but that is what we call 'mate guarding' where the male is ensuring that no other male mates with the female he was just with.

As far as the photos you have shared, I can see that your beautiful girl has her eyes closed in some of them. Chameleon's do not have a lot of defences against predators. They do not have razor sharp claws, big fangs, or thick skin to protect them from predators. Their best bet for staying alive is remaining unseen and being able to spot predators before the predator sees them...aka their vision. If a chameleon is closing its eyes, it is the ultimate sign of stress and/or illness. Whatever is occurring, it is so bad that they are literally giving up.

This is quite different for us 'pack animals' as sleeping near others is a sign of ultimate trust, however with our chameleons this is not the case.

Chameleons have many different ways to communicate stress to us, it is not always hissing and gaping. My veiled girl for example has very subtle signs that she is stressed. It took me a long time to recognize this. I handled my girl a lot before I realized this, now if she wants to come out and sit on my hand, I only do so because she makes that choice. Once I see her little baby black stripes on the bottom sides of her belly, I know she is done and I put her back in her enclosure.

There is a podcast I often listen to called the Chameleon Academy, there are several episodes where the host, Bill Strand, teaches about chameleon body language, and more detail about the pack mentality that we have vs how a chameleon really is and what that means for them as pets for us. If you are interested I would be more than happy to search up the specific episodes that speak about this for you, just let me know.

Please know that I am speaking to you out of nothing but love and respect for these animals and I hope this is helpful to you.

If you have any questions or anything we are all here to help and support.

 

[montysmommy]

Hello! What a beautiful girl you have! I also have a female veiled, they are amazing creatures.

Unfortunately, chameleons are unable to feel love like we do. Love is a 'pack or herd animal' ability and as chameleon's are not 'pack or herd animals', they literally do not have that part of the brain that allows them to feel love. At best, we are able to build trust with our chameleons but that is about it. In the wild once they hatch, they immediately disperse, they do not stick together. We may see a male and female stick together after mating but that is what we call 'mate guarding' where the male is ensuring that no other male mates with the female he was just with.

As far as the photos you have shared, I can see that your beautiful girl has her eyes closed in some of them. Chameleon's do not have a lot of defences against predators. They do not have razor sharp claws, big fangs, or thick skin to protect them from predators. Their best bet for staying alive is remaining unseen and being able to spot predators before the predator sees them...aka their vision. If a chameleon is closing its eyes, it is the ultimate sign of stress and/or illness. Whatever is occurring, it is so bad that they are literally giving up.

This is quite different for us 'pack animals' as sleeping near others is a sign of ultimate trust, however with our chameleons this is not the case.

Chameleons have many different ways to communicate stress to us, it is not always hissing and gaping. My veiled girl for example has very subtle signs that she is stressed. It took me a long time to recognize this. I handled my girl a lot before I realized this, now if she wants to come out and sit on my hand, I only do so because she makes that choice. Once I see her little baby black stripes on the bottom sides of her belly, I know she is done and I put her back in her enclosure.

There is a podcast I often listen to called the Chameleon Academy, there are several episodes where the host, Bill Strand, teaches about chameleon body language, and more detail about the pack mentality that we have vs how a chameleon really is and what that means for them as pets for us. If you are interested I would be more than happy to search up the specific episodes that speak about this for you, just let me know.

Please know that I am speaking to you out of nothing but love and respect for these animals and I hope this is helpful to you.

If you have any questions or anything we are all here to help and support.

thank you for answering! oh no I feel so bad now to think I was stressing her out it is an issue to read a chameleons emotion because they are very mysterious you never know what they like. thank you so much they are indeed beautiful creatures id never want to harm them at all id be so grateful if you could yes I wanna know more about her and to understand her better! thank you so much have a great day

 

[elizaann2]

Anytime

Don't beat yourself up. Honestly, I have been there, and I am sure many people on here have been there before as well. We all started out as beginners at one point. We learn as we go and as we involve ourselves in finding out more about them, we better our knowledge and our care.

At first I showed affection to my girl by spending time with her and holding her often. Once I learned more about her body language I changed how I show her that I love her. Now how I show her affection is by providing the best life for her that I possibly can. She lives in a large enclosure that is heavily planted. She loves eating flowers so I do my best to keep hibiscus plants in her enclosure for her to enjoy. I give her a wide variety of healthy gut-loaded bugs in her diet and even hatch black solider flies for her to free range and try to catch. I probably enjoy watching her hunt those down the most. I can see in your photos how much you do love your little girl, maybe you can make similar changes to show her you love her.

Give me a few minutes to dig around and find those podcasts for you.

All my info I got here, so please stick around! This community is really amazing, people here are kind and compassionate.

You can also check out Neptune the Chameleon on YouTube

The Chameleon Academy Website and YouTube

And like I said before, the Chameleon Academy podcast is also excellent. I listen to it when driving around and doing all my 'chameleon chores'.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello Again! The podcasts I found most helpful in learning about chameleons & stress/body language were:

Chameleon Academy:
Episode 6: Chameleons and Stress - posted on 1/1/2016
Episode: Chameleon Health Points - posted on 8/28/2020
Episode: The Biggest Killer of Chameleons - posted on 3/26/2023

Let me know what you think!

 

[Beman]

Note... don't kiss her... and wash hands after holding her. Salmonella is a risk with reptiles. You do not want to get sick because your giving her a kiss and then get salmonella from her. Same with washing hands after. Say you don't and then go make a sandwich your now transferring germs to your food that your ingesting.

I do agree with every @elizaann2 said...

With a "friendly" cham first we want to look at their enclosure set up top to bottom. We want to ensure that their reason for being out of their cage is not due to an issue with their enclosure.

I am not saying that some are not friendly but 9 times out of 10 there is a reason for them preferring to be with a human over their home. My male was extremely friendly the first 2 years of his life. Now he prefers his home and to be left alone. But there were reasons for him being more "friendly" with me then too. He had an indoor free range area and an outdoor enclosure. So he related me as the transportation to those areas he liked hanging out in. I also hand fed him so he related me with food.

 

[montysmommy]

Anytime

Don't beat yourself up. Honestly, I have been there, and I am sure many people on here have been there before as well. We all started out as beginners at one point. We learn as we go and as we involve ourselves in finding out more about them, we better our knowledge and our care.

At first I showed affection to my girl by spending time with her and holding her often. Once I learned more about her body language I changed how I show her that I love her. Now how I show her affection is by providing the best life for her that I possibly can. She lives in a large enclosure that is heavily planted. She loves eating flowers so I do my best to keep hibiscus plants in her enclosure for her to enjoy. I give her a wide variety of healthy gut-loaded bugs in her diet and even hatch black solider flies for her to free range and try to catch. I probably enjoy watching her hunt those down the most. I can see in your photos how much you do love your little girl, maybe you can make similar changes to show her you love her.

Give me a few minutes to dig around and find those podcasts for you.

All my info I got here, so please stick around! This community is really amazing, people here are kind and compassionate.

You can also check out Neptune the Chameleon on YouTube

The Chameleon Academy Website and YouTube

And like I said before, the Chameleon Academy podcast is also excellent. I listen to it when driving around and doing all my 'chameleon chores'.

thank you so much I will keep all this in mind! it is true we all start somewhere. But apparently some chams are more agressive and dont even let their owners get close. Ive never had that problem and maybe Im overthinking but is something wrong that shes never angry?

 

[Andrew1283]

My male veiled would chomp my nose if I went in for a kiss. He is a look don’t touch chameleon. My female is a sweetheart though. The dogs were rough housing near his enclosure. He was calmly basking on his branch in the back and he came all the way down front (and fast) wearing his battle suit colors just to show them who’s boss. Flame on!

 

[elizaann2]

thank you so much I will keep all this in mind! it is true we all start somewhere. But apparently some chams are more agressive and dont even let their owners get close. Ive never had that problem and maybe Im overthinking but is something wrong that shes never angry?

Don't stress too much, some chams are more calm, others like @Beman said, their friendliness comes from issues with their enclosure. If you'd like we can take a look at your enclosure and husbandry and see if there is anything you can improve for her.

 

[elizaann2]

My male veiled would chomp my nose if I went in for a kiss. He is a look don’t touch chameleon. My female is a sweetheart though. The dogs were rough housing near his enclosure. He was calmly basking on his branch in the back and he came all the way down front (and fast) wearing his battle suit colors just to show them who’s boss. Flame on!

Oh my gosh I love him so much! I just love his colors!!

Right - a lot of it has to do with their personalities as well. My veiled girl is friendly, but on her terms...kind of like a cat. Don't hold her unless she wants to be held. She is very food motivated so if I open her enclsoure doors she will often rush to my hands to examine them for treats. My panther boy is scared of me, the broom, the mop, some of my star wars memorabilia, the color red. He HATES my hands. I am slowly slowly teaching him that my hands mean food, but he will gape at me until he realizes my hand has a tasty treat in it. He will get it from me cautiously and then show his dislike for me again after. My jackson's boy is terrified of me and everytime I open his enclosure door he swivles behind a branch and pretends he is a stick.

 

[elizaann2]

@montysmommy if you are interested, the husbandry review form is below, just copy it and past it in a reply on here and fill out as much info as you can about your beautiful veiled.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem -

 

[Andrew1283]

Oh my gosh I love him so much! I just love his colors!!

Right - a lot of it has to do with their personalities as well. My veiled girl is friendly, but on her terms...kind of like a cat. Don't hold her unless she wants to be held. She is very food motivated so if I open her enclsoure doors she will often rush to my hands to examine them for treats. My panther boy is scared of me, the broom, the mop, some of my star wars memorabilia, the color red. He HATES my hands. I am slowly slowly teaching him that my hands mean food, but he will gape at me until he realizes my hand has a tasty treat in it. He will get it from me cautiously and then show his dislike for me again after. My jackson's boy is terrified of me and everytime I open his enclosure door he swivles behind a branch and pretends he is a stick.

This shop IllExotics in Philly has such a wonderful staff and selection of chams . If you’re a serious customer and have provided proof of an adequate enclosure at home, they will do a meet and greet in a quiet basement area so you get to see the cham’s personality outside their enclosure. It’s a really beautiful store and wonderful staff. Gilbert my panther (RIP) was an angel. Tony the veiled is the devil (lol) and I met a Jackson’s who wasn’t even for sale but my God he was a sweet angel. So relaxed and acted like oh….uhhh…OK we are doing this now? If I did get another it would be a Jackson’s but not until my new window comes in for the reptile room and portable AC/heat unit

 

[elizaann2]

That is awesome! I’m so glad you have a good place to getM

This shop IllExotics in Philly has such a wonderful staff and selection of chams . If you’re a serious customer and have provided proof of an adequate enclosure at home, they will do a meet and greet in a quiet basement area so you get to see the cham’s personality outside their enclosure. It’s a really beautiful store and wonderful staff. Gilbert my panther (RIP) was an angel. Tony the veiled is the devil (lol) and I met a Jackson’s who wasn’t even for sale but my God he was a sweet angel. So relaxed and acted like oh….uhhh…OK we are doing this now? If I did get another it would be a Jackson’s but not until my new window comes in for the reptile room and portable AC/heat unit

More pet stores need to be like this!

 

[jannb]

I thought those of you that commented might be interested in reading what my long time vet/friend had to say about some of the things mentioned in this thread. Read post #54.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/most-friendliest-chameleon.45616/page-3

 

[elizaann2]

I thought those of you that commented might be interested in reading what my long time vet/friend had to say about some of the things mentioned in this thread. Read post #54.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/most-friendliest-chameleon.45616/page-3

Interesting read. Thank you for sharing!