4 month male veiled Starting to Fall

[Shona]

Hi

Jambos a 4 month male veiled, ive had him for 3 months now, but ive just noticed hes started to fall when climbing alot!! and hes not very tame so if i try and help he freaks out and it makes it worse!!

is there something wrong with him?

i feed him crickets locust and waxworms, and gut loadz on friut and veggies.
hes foods dusted with calcium without d3 eceryfeed, mulivits and calcium with d3twice a month.

Ive never noticed before but iv bin in my room with him all day today and hes fell twice!!

Help please do i need to take my babe to the vets??

 

[okiroo]

how old is your UVB light? a pic would help aswell.

 

[camimom]

Fill out the how to ask for help form please. This way, we can see if something in your husbandry can be causing this.
Also, pics of his entire body, especially the legs, and of his enclosure would be great.

Sometimes chams fall bc their branches are too big for them to grip. sometimes it can be a sign of MBD. It depends. Dont start to freak out yet, it could be a simple fix.
So, just get the form filled out, and get some pics up, and we can try to help you from there.

 

[Shona]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, 4 months, ive had him for 3 months now.
Handling - only once a week to clean his cage
Feeding - 3rd crickets, locust waxworms and occasional mealworm but hes not to keen on them. he eats around 20 feeders a day a few of each each day. i feed half an hour after i turn his lights on eceryday. i gutload on green peppers, iceberg lettuce, carrott apple and potatoe, the day before they are given to him.
Supplements - Exo Terra Calcium without D3 every feed. Komodo calcium with D3 twice a week. and Nutrobol calcium balancer and multivitamin once a week. i dust the feeders just before i put them in the cage, as he hunts his food anyway.
Watering - I mist him 3 times a day with a hand bottle, i use a full bottle every time, and leave icecubes over a plant in the cage so they melt slowley. i dont see him drink.
Fecal Description - dark brown, black and white. hard also

Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? yes wen i got him.

History - No hes bin fine since i had him. Still quite scared of me but i guess thats fairley normal.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - ? Exo terra Glass vivarium with screen top. dont no exact dimentions and not at home at the min.
Lighting - I have an exo terra canopy with two exo terra repti glo 10.0 UVB lights in, which i got new 3 months ago just before i got him. He has a 50 watt basking bulb, but its out of his cage so he cant get to close to it. i turn his lights on at 8oclock in the morning 15-20 mns after light comes into the room, and i turn them off at 8 at night.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? His basking spot is always around 87% and the floor is normally around 74-76%. i have themometers in his cage at the bottom, and have exo terra digital thermomter in the middle of his basking spot. This can tell me the lowest to highest temp it has been through the day.

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? His humidity is always around 70-80% I mist him 3 times a day for 5 mins each time emtpying a hand spay bottle each time. I have the same as my digital thermometer but for humidity, this is in the back of the cage.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I put a hibiscus in on thursday, this is the only thing i have changed!! do you think it could be this as i have noticed his has taken a bite out of one of the leaves!! He also has many fake plants and vines in his tank so he can get to every level of his cage, and a large real log that reaches into his basking spot. even with all this in his tank though, his fav place to go is a wire in the back that is for his heater senser! dont worry its not hot, its just to monitor the temp.

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? He is in my bedroom, ontop of a computer desk so hes quite high up. Hes in complete silence unless im in my room typing on my laptop or chattin to him

Location - im in the north west of england. Wigan lancashire to be exact.

Current Problem - I noticed today that he fell twice while i was in the room!! once off his wire ( were he norm spends most the time) and once wen climbing off his wire onto the vine next to it. but bear in mind this is what he spends his day doing, going back and forth on this bloody wire. I cought him both times, but as hes still scared of me i dont think i helped but i just couldnt sit there and watch him fall!! After the second time, he got a hold of his wire and sort of slipped to the bottom were he lay for a min, now hes hiding behind his log on the FLOOR!!!! please help me i feel so helpless!! do you think it could be the hibicus or am i doing something really worng??? ive only got one pic and it was on a bad day were he wouldnt let me take him out, so i had to take his stuff out to clean!! i only took it coz he was looking at me! haha

 

[Shona]

this was taken a week or 2 ago it wont let me attach it, but it is in another thread the link is https://www.chameleonforums.com/male-female-67307/ sorry its not very big and i only have the one!!

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

Falling is usually a sign of MBD, stress, infection, or dehydration.
Glass Enclosures do not do well with some species of Chameleon, they not only have poor air circulation, but the cham can usually see there reflection, this causes stress, witch leads to poor health. Your cham may have developed a RI from the lack of circulation and this may be causing issues with not only his breathing but also his equilibrium, much like when a human gets a bad sinus infection or cold and becomes dizzy when standing or has the (floating head)

 

[Shona]

its quarter to 8 here and nearly time for jambo to go to bed, but hes still on the floor! and his crickets are still in as he doesnt seem to have eat much today. really hope hes okay!!!

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

Please provide the Forum with a good Up close pic showing your entire cham, as we can sometimes spot physically a issue or problem area, and if in doubt seek vet assistance

 

[Shona]

Falling is usually a sign of MBD, stress, infection, or dehydration.
Glass Enclosures do not do well with some species of Chameleon, they not only have poor air circulation, but the cham can usually see there reflection, this causes stress, witch leads to poor health. Your cham may have developed a RI from the lack of circulation and this may be causing issues with not only his breathing but also his equilibrium, much like when a human gets a bad sinus infection or cold and becomes dizzy when standing or has the (floating head)

Although i dont see him drink hes urate in his fecies (if thats the right word) it always white, i though this ment he was hydrated? i have put a background on his cage now, its like a rock one so he couldnt see himself. So do you think its something serious? what can i do?

 

[brooklynelizabeth]

Although i dont see him drink hes urate in his fecies (if thats the right word) it always white, i though this ment he was hydrated? i have put a background on his cage now, its like a rock one so he couldnt see himself. So do you think its something serious? what can i do?

It may just be a clumsy stage in his life and nothing really serious, its very hard saying without seeing a detailed picture, and really going over all the details of his actions. Its good that you have put a backround on the back but remember that it is a cube, and 3 other sides are reflecting at him, although you are looking in, as he is looking out, the light that is pointing down on him casts a reflection on the interior glass, much like at night when your looking out your window and can see your reflection

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Feeding - 3rd crickets, locust waxworms and occasional mealworm but hes not to keen on them. he eats around 20 feeders a day a few of each each day. i feed half an hour after i turn his lights on eceryday. i gutload on green peppers, iceberg lettuce, carrott apple and potatoe, the day before they are given to him.

It sounds like you have a lot of good things going, but you need to really improve your gutloading to maintain his health. Falling/weakness can be a sign of the start of Metabolic Bone Disease from lack of sufficient calcium, especially in a young growing chameleon.
Iceburg lettuce - no nutritional value at all and bad calcium to phosphorus ratio
Green peppers - bad calcium to phosphorus ratio
Carrots - only good with a high calcium gutload, otherwise too much oxalates
Apple - very little nutritional benefit and bad calcium to phosphorus ratio
Potato - no nutritional benefit

You will keep your crickets alive on that stuff but you are not doing any favors to your chameleon because the crickets are just little chitin capsules. They can all continue to be used for variety IF you have a more balanced gutload in addition to these things. You need lots more sources of calcium in your gutload!

Gutloading is the process of working through the food chain to feed the prey animals the nutrition that your insectivore pet needs to replicate what they would eat in nature. Crickets are basically just water and chitin (not very nutritious or digestible) and the pet stores only feed them cardboard, or potato at most, so feeding crickets directly after you get them from the pet store or vendor is not providing much in the way of nutrition to your pet. Supplementing with a calcium and/or multivitamin powder is important, but not sufficient alone for proper nutrition in any species. Gut loading can't be done in all feeders but is very easy in crickets and super worms - two common feeder bugs.

How do you chose what to use? Gutloading ingredients should be chosen that are higher in calcium than phosphorus. High phosphorus levels in the food impedes calcium absorption. Inadequate dietary calcium leads to metabolic bone disease. Commercially available gutloads (such as Fluker Farms Cricket Food) are not balanced or sufficient for good nutrition in any species. Ideally there should be a wet and dry component to your gut load:

Good Wet Gutloading Ingredients: dandelion leaves, collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, escarole lettuce, butternut squash, mango, alfalfa sprouts, oranges, blueberries, raspberries, sweet potato, strawberries, hibiscus leaves and flowers, papaya

Good Dry Gutload Ingredients: bee pollen, alfalfa powder, kelp powder, brewer’s yeast, wheat germ, raw uncooked sunflower seeds, raw uncooked pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, small amounts of whole grain cereals, spirulina algae, tortoise pellets

Foods to AVOID: Broccoli, spinach, beets, and parsley, have large amounts of oxalic acids which bind calcium absorption. Lettuces and cabbage do not have any significant nutritional value. Also, avoid things like dog food, cat food, and fish flakes which are high in animal proteins which can cause kidney damage. Feeding such things like pinky-mice, fuzzies, and feeder anoles that are extremely high in fat and protein content is harmful to your chameleon's health, bones and organs that can lead to serious illnesses like gout, edema, organ failure and fatality.


This site has nutritional info on many commonly available fruits and veggies to help guide you in choosing good gut loading ingredients: http://www.greenigsociety.org/foodchart.htm
Sandrachameleon has many more blog entries on gut loading and nutrition that are a wealth of information. This blurb is just an intro, you should go to her blogs for a ton more info!

Waxworms are fatty without a whole lot of other nutrients so should not make so much of the diet. And mealworms are kind of along the same lines. You can substitute small superworms for the mealworms and get a much better feeder because they can be gutloaded like crickets and don't have as high chitin content. Other good worm choices: butterworms or reptiworms (very high in calcium), hornworms, and silkworms.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Sounds like he doesn't have a lot in his cage to climb on based on the vine to wire activity. He probably needs more foliage and unless your cage is 3ft tall then it's not big enough unfortunately. Those exoterras are great cages for a lot of species, but not for a veiled chameleon. They are just too small. Getting stressed by seeing their reflection in the glass is a myth (look through the glass from the inside, do you see your reflection?) and glass can work well but only if the size is appropriate. An adult male veiled chameleon should have a cage at least 3ft tall and 2ft wide and deep, and bigger is better in this situation. Yours is young now but will quickly outgrow that cage in the next few months easily.

I don't know that there's any need to have two 10.0 UVB bulbs btw. We generally use 5.0 for chameleons since 10.0 is designed for desert species and you really only need one. Remember they need to be changed every 6 months because they stop emitting UVB even though the light is still shining.

 

[Shona]

Thanks, ive got my local pet store to order me some small superworms and some reptiworms see how we go on with them. They'll be there to pick up tomoorw because they get there delivery tonight!! Il call at the fruit and veg stall to get the gut loaders you suggested!!

He seems to be a little better these past two days, hes not fell again that ive seen and last night he slept on a vine quite high up, all though not quite as high as usual, but still at least he wasnt on the floor!!!

i no i need a bigger cage, ive got one to put him into next month, i was told to keep him in a smaller one till hes abit bigger though.

He has many vines and plants and a large log in his cage, there isnt much room for anything else, just for some reason the lil guy prefers the wire, i was even thinking of getting loads of little pices of vines and have them hanging down with just a sucker at the bottom like the wire so he might get off it haha!