2-3 month old panther

[Bizzle90]

I'm getting my first cham within the next couple weeks - Do you think it's fine to have a 2-3 month old panther (male) in a 2x2x4 enclosure (Reptibreeze)

Also, I plan to cup-feed him so that would stop him from searching in a cage 400x the size of him for food!

Lastly, when they are at the 2-3 month old mark - are they large enough to eat 1/4-1/2" crickets?

Thanks!

 

[Synapse]

Yes the enclosure size is fine. One of my panthers is 3 months and eating 1/4 crickets but I do not know the size of your cham, so I can't say for sure. Most likely yes.

 

[panther67]

As long as the feeder is not bigger than the width of his head he will be fine.

 

[allllllen]

whoa whoa whoa. thats way too big for a 2-3 month old!
First off, God forbid, if he falls, he can seriously hurt himself or can even result in death.
Secondly, since the cage is so big and he is so small, he'll have a hard time regulating his body temp. and its a big gamble because that poses a big issue of if he'll be in range / or getting enough exposure to his UVB lights which are very important at such an early stage.
You'd be risking mbd along with other health problems such as metabolism and heating regulation.
Don't risk it.
Go for the small cage. Its not worth the gamble.

 

[Bizzle90]

The way I look at it - I compare it to the wild...They aren't put in small cages in the wild as babies, so that's why I see it as not a big deal..

All the plants/coverage will be at the top half of the cage.

As far as regulating his body temps - I don't see how the cage size would affect that if he has a lot of room to move and a lot of hides.

Thanks for your responses guys, I appreciate all your input!

 

[seanUTD]

The way I look at it - I compare it to the wild...They aren't put in small cages in the wild as babies, so that's why I see it as not a big deal..

All the plants/coverage will be at the top half of the cage.

As far as regulating his body temps - I don't see how the cage size would affect that if he has a lot of room to move and a lot of hides.

Thanks for your responses guys, I appreciate all your input!

I second this... Both my boys were placed in 2x2x4 at three months... They are wild, arboreal animals.. Sometimes I think we forget that

 

[KatiLemons]

The way I look at it - I compare it to the wild...They aren't put in small cages in the wild as babies, so that's why I see it as not a big deal..

So true!!!

 

[Chris Jury]

A cage of this size could conceivably work fine for this animal, given some caveats. Usually the biggest potential problem with a large cage for a small chameleon is feeding, namely that the animal often has a difficult time finding the food becasue it is so dispersed. Cup feeding, as you plan to do, could remeady that potential problem.

I wouldn't be particularly concerned about the animal's ability to thermoregulate, if there is appropriate temperature gradient (basking area 90-100 F, ambient far away from basking area of 70-80 F). As pointed out, they do this in nature over distances at least this large quite effectively. Appropriate gradient in UV intensity is also important. These are basic requirements for any chameleon though, regardless of age or size.

Falling for an animal of this size carries practically no risk. It's often times hard to conceptualize how different falling bodies behave by virtue of different sizes. Small animals with high surface area to mass ratios create a lot of drag in the air as compared to large animals. As a result, their terminal velocity (the highest velocity they can attain while falliing) is much lower than for large animals. To quote a famous essay by Haldane,

"To the mouse and any smaller animal it [gravity] presents practically no dangers. You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes."

While crawling around on some plants on our lanai (under my supervision) some time ago my female Jackson's (about 9.5" total length, maybe 5" svl) decided to jump, for whatever reason. In fact, she jumped off of the lanai itself, falling 20 ft to the concrete driveway below. I jumped up immediately, my heart in my throat, and ran downstairs expecting to find the worst. There she was on the concrete, a little dazed looking, but very much alive. She sustained no injury whatsoever, as best I can tell, not even a bruise. Granted, this is something that I NEVER want to repeat, but nonetheless, small animals, especially those smaller than about a mouse, land softly when they fall, no matter how far they fall. My chameleon is larger than this quite-safe range, so we were both a bit lucky. Something the size of an adult male panther chameleon would end up injured by a similar fall because it hits the ground much harder.

As for the cricket size, 1/4" is likely fine whereas 1/2" might be pushing it a bit, especially if the chameleon is on the smaller size.

cj

 

[Creature13]

Falling for an animal of this size carries practically no risk. It's often times hard to conceptualize how different falling bodies behave by virtue of different sizes. Small animals with high surface area to mass ratios create a lot of drag in the air as compared to large animals. As a result, their terminal velocity (the highest velocity they can attain while falliing) is much lower than for large animals. To quote a famous essay by Haldane,

"To the mouse and any smaller animal it [gravity] presents practically no dangers. You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes."

Great quote... thanks for sharing that!

 

[KatiLemons]

I also concur with that thought.