1st time breeder

[dj special k]

Hey all, I've read and done some type of research and have gotten a few reptile store owner's input on breeding my Veileds. I need some of your input and suggestions. I've had a female Veiled for about 6 months now so she must be around 7 months and have recently bought a male who's basically twice her size. Here's the assessment I've written up as follows:


Age:
Female: More than 6 months, less than 1 year.
- half the size of the male
Male: 9-12 months.

Housing:

*2 screen cages combined as one tall cage.
*Added more fake vines/plants
*Lots of room for chameleons to hide and crawl within fake
shrubbery.
-Shrubbery creates sufficient folliage to retain water for
chams to drink
-Adds to humidity when misting
*UVB light at top
*Regular incandescent lightbulb for heat directed at bottom/middle
cage for warmth.
-Top is not lit with bulb so Chams can get away from the
heat if needed.
*Plastic "water catch" container underneath cage so "rainforest"
misting is not a problem with flooding and dripping out of cage

Feeding:

*Insuficient gut-loading and calcium dusting.
*10+- crickets released into cage QD (every day)
~Female eats on a daily basis
~Male - has not eaten since bought 09/30/07

Water needs:

*Frequent misting with pump garden spritzer QD
-Entire cage is dripping, bottom is watered
~Chams lick fake leaves and water beads from screen.

Temperature:

* Currently unknown

Breeding Attempts

* 09/30/07 - introduced male to female
- Male was calm and remaining on branch
- Female was gaping, hissing, rocking back and forth but
not turning dark.
- @ late PM, female was slowly approaching male.
- Female was "zapping" male with tongue from close
proximity
- Male was not responding
- Male, sitting on vine let one leg hang
- Female "zapped" his hanging leg
- Male approached female from behind
-Female was gaping, still green, not angered,
not threatened
- Male pushed away from female

* 10/01/07
- Female hissing territorially, but green, not attacking.
- Late PM, Female was approaching male to interact
- Unsuccessful as male was curled up and
sleeping at top of cage on vine
* 10/0207
- Female was approaching male
- Male was on the side of the cage as she was nudging
him at his side
- Female bit male's leg softly and then went to bottom of
cage.
- neither were stressed... displaying green colors.

Questions/Interventions:

* Should I keep them in the same cage until they mate seeing as they get along?
* Should I have a special lighting or set up so that the male will mate with her?
* Is the situation, the female wants to mate, but the male doesn't see her as suitable for breeding?
* Should I isolate them in different cages and present them to each other after a few days?
* I went to a reptile store and saw that they had "breeding cages" which looked like screen cages, just smaller and with more than one side of the cage being plexy glass... Should I look into buying one of those specially for them?




That's all I have. Lengthy, I know; but I'm just really interested in successfully breeding them and caring for my Chams and for a first timer, I don't want to make mistakes that might cost me my cham's lives. Any input would be great and I thank you for taking the time to read all of this even if you don't put in your two cents.

 

[booshified]

~Male - has not eaten since bought 09/30/07

id say until he eats on a somewhat consistant basis you shouldnt even think about breeding

 

[dj special k]

Is he not eating because he's still trying to adjust to his new home?

 

[Julirs]

A couple of things here-your female just may be a little too young yet. Maybe not, but she needs to be receptive before you put them together. They should not be housed together, and everyone should be eating well and used to their new surroundings before any attempts are made. You do not need special breeding cages. The female should always be put in the males cage when attempts are made and she is receptive. You can test this by either holding her in front of the males cage and watching both of their reactions, or even by placing the cages next to each other. I had to try several times over a month until they were both ready. Leave them together for a few days or until she shows gravid coloration.

I would give your male a month to get used to his new home. Place them in separate cages where they cannot see each other.

 

[kinyonga]

I never breed my veiled females until they are over a year of age. I like to make sure they are finished their own growth before I put the demands of producing fertile eggs on them.

I use real non-toxic plants that have been well washed...both sides of the leaves. Veileds have been known to nibble on artificial ones and I would worry that they might get a piece of one and ingest it. Once they are about 5 or so months of age, they do eat greenery, greens, etc. as well as insects.

What UVB light do you use? There are problems reported recently with certain compacts and tube lights. (The UVB light should not pass through glass or plastic.)

Normally people have the basking light at the top and the cooler areas at the bottom....I don't know what will happen the way yours is set up (Top is not lit with bulb so Chams can get away from the heat if needed).

Its important to know the temperature because appropriate temperatures are needed for proper digestion which plays a part in nutrient absorption.

You said..."Insuficient gut-loading and calcium dusting"...most feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous, so dusting them properly with a phosphorous-free calcium powder at most feedings is important. Gutloading is also important for the health of your chameleon. You can gutload crickets with an assortment of greens (dandelion, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc.) and veggies (carrot, sweet potato, squash, white potato, sweet red pepper, etc.)

You said..."Male - has not eaten since bought 09/30/07"...hopefully this is only because he is adjusting to his new home. You need to know the temperature in the cage to ensure that he is warm enough. If he doesn't eat in a day or two, post again, please. Until you are sure that he has no health issues, I wouldn't put the two of them together.

You asked..."Should I keep them in the same cage until they mate seeing as they get along?"...they can be left in the same cage FOR MATING purposes as long as they get along....but IMHO yours are too young to be mating.

You asked..."Should I isolate them in different cages and present them to each other after a few days?"...mine are kept visually isolated (and in separate cages) until I want to mate them. I then make sure they are both receptive to mating and put them together in the male's cage until there are signs of rejection.

Here are some sites with good information on keeping chameleons, etc....
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm
http://adcham.com/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I agree with Kinyonga that the female is too young.
It's going to take your boy awhile to adjust as well...he probably feels
quite insecure being moved and put into someone else's territory.
In order for him to get comfortable, he needs his own space.
If I were you, I would seperate them today and try for breeding in March.

-Brad

 

[dj special k]

Everybody's reply to me was extremely helpful. Will do on the temperature and gutloading/dusting concerns. I'll have to either create or buy another cage for the male. Thanks everybody for the replies.

 

[Sepioteuthis]

What the female was telling the male with her nudging and tongue shooting is "get your behind out of my territory!".
You should give your male a few months on his own to adjust to his new environment and really settle in, even if your female was old enough to mate (which, as mentioned before, she isn't).

Female veileds will show receptive coloration when they're ready. I'm sure there are a bunch of picture of this in this forum.

good luck!

Suzanne