Skin Lumps - what does it look like to you?

sandrachameleon

sandrachameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Has anyone seen anything resembling this skin condition before?

This is Trucker, a Male panther, about 2 years old, otherwise active and behaving normally. I noticed these lumps on one eye turret and one shoulder a few weeks back. Thought at first it was just skin not fully shed off. Then when he shed again and the lumps appeared bigger, and now also on the other eye turret and on the mouth, even when I eased off the clinging dead skin, I became concerned.
I took him to the vet, who removed a few samples to test for fungus (which apparently takes quite awhile for results). She also suggests it could be a bacterial infection, or viral. So basically the vet says it could be anything and she really doesnt have a clue! In the meantime, She provided a topical ointment containing Biacitracin Zinc and Neomycin Sulfate, which I am to apply two or three times a day (and which he fights receiving).

I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.

His environment:
  • Temps range from lows of 19C (66F) at night; daytime lower cage ~23C (74F), top of cage ~30C (86F) and basking hot-spot ~32C (90F).
  • Humidity 42%-57% normally (higher during misting of course).
  • Previously was using a CFL Repti-glo 5.0 UVB, which was changed to a Reti-glo 10 linear yesterday (bulbs are on a six month replacement schedule).
  • He usually eats three times a day (variety of roaches, crickets, kingworms, stick insects, butterworms, wood sows, mealworms...). Every morning meal is lightly calcium dusted, plus anytime the feeder is crickets (so up to twice daily). Calcium with D3 is used once or twice a month. Vit supplement is used about once a month.
The other chameleons, including his brother who hatched two minutes after him and is housed in the cage next door, all have had the same lighting, feeding, misting etc schedule and have shown no issues.
 

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I have seen "pimples" with that coloration but they were more defined (round and even)...the ones I have seen can be viral (pox), fungal or bacterial...or contain more than one of the three. In all cases that I know of it was bad news...but I can't be sure if your chameleon has the same thing. Also, with the ones that I am aware of, I don't feel the treatment was proper. Also, any lizard that I have seen this on was WC too.

I hope your vet figures it out.
 
Howdy Sandra,

Thanks for posting good photos :eek:. Like Kinyonga said, viral, bacterial and fungal attacks are commonly associated with skin conditions/eruptions on chameleons and some that I've seen are similar to your photos. Mader's 2nd edition has a photo showing 3 different yet similar looking skin conditions on a Jackson's chameleon. They are exfoliative, ulcerative, and bullous dermatomycotic lesions (pg 220). It is suggested that vets need to look more often at the possibility of a fungal infection. Testing with fungal culturing and histopathologic examination can either confirm or eliminate the possibility.

A few other notes on skin related problems:

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=221362#post221362
Images of the Jackson's in the post (photos sent directly to me):
JacksonsSkinMod1.jpg

JacksonsSkinMod2.jpg


Another thread regarding skin problems:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1330111,1331276
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1330111,1331526
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1330111,1336178
 
leoman said:
So how do chams get infected?
Click to expand...
Howdy Juan,

A combination of many factors put an infection into play. We, and our chameleons, are surrounded by microbial life with the potential to infect. These microbes, whether they are bacterial, viral, fungal etc., need an entry mode. They may enter through a small break in the skin or have the ability to punch their way through it. They may enter though the airway among others. Once inside, they have to make it past the immune system.

A chameleon's environment plays a role in an infection. When conditions become ideal for microbes, it allows their numbers and thus their odds, to increase. Keeping an enclosure too wet/humid and letting air become stale increases those odds. Scratches in the skin that go untreated are an easy entry point and increase those odds. Humidity kept too low for a particular species increases the likelihood of airway/lung distress allowing microbes an easy path into damaged tissue. A chameleon under stress, particularly severe stress, may have a suppressed immune system and be more susceptible to an infection.

So what are a few of the things you can you do to keep the odds in your chameleon's favor?

Minimize stress:
Supply an appropriately sized enclosure.
Provide a well-planted enclosure with plenty of privacy.
Minimize human interaction relative to the chameleon's current level of acclimation.

Environmental conditions:
Allow enclosure to dry out between misting sessions.
Provide proper humidity levels throughout the day.
Provide proper heat and light.
Avoid the use of soil on the entire enclosure bottom. Use potted plants only.
Use a sanitizing product after cleaning the enclosure. (Bleach, Nolvasan, Hydrogen peroxide, 160F(?) steam, etc.)

And don't forget the role of a good gutload in boosting the immune system :)!
 
I would also like to add mating. My fems got scratched up when mating (love bites) and I am watching those marks like a hawk. They both are getting ready to shed so I'm hoping that the scratched areas will shed off and I won't have to worry.
 
thank you Kinyonga and Dave for your input!

In this case, I'm confident the environment is not the issue. The temps and humidty are right, the air is not stagnant, there is good variety of feeders, the feeders are gutloaded, there is no substrate (well, there's usually papertowel on the bottom so that the poop can be removed easily and immediate, but he's never tried to eat the towel and rarely even walks on it), the cage is of an adequate size (2'x2'x4') and steam cleaned periodically and washed with a vinegar solution monthly. Furthermore, all the other chameleons, in the same room in near identical conditions, are fine.

The only recent change is the introduction of Turkish roaches, which this particular chameleon has had more of than the others (and that's not much, as since the colony is new they've each only had a few, and Trucker has had maybe half a dozen tops). Still I wonder if the roaches could carry something? Trucker got this, whatever it is, somehow!

I am a bit concerned that the issue may spread to the others, especially as I am receiving two more on Tuesday. Presumably they will be more suseptable, given the stress of shipping, a new environment, being younger, etc. I wonder if the new ones should be kept in a different room for now? It would be difficult, but not impossible to do this.
 
Dave Weldon said:
Howdy Juan,

A combination of many factors put an infection into play. We, and our chameleons, are surrounded by microbial life with the potential to infect. These microbes, whether they are bacterial, viral, fungal etc., need an entry mode. They may enter through a small break in the skin or have the ability to punch their way through it. They may enter though the airway among others. Once inside, they have to make it past the immune system.

A chameleon's environment plays a role in an infection. When conditions become ideal for microbes, it allows their numbers and thus their odds, to increase. Keeping an enclosure too wet/humid and letting air become stale increases those odds. Scratches in the skin that go untreated are an easy entry point and increase those odds. Humidity kept too low for a particular species increases the likelihood of airway/lung distress allowing microbes an easy path into damaged tissue. A chameleon under stress, particularly severe stress, may have a suppressed immune system and be more susceptible to an infection.

So what are a few of the things you can you do to keep the odds in your chameleon's favor?

Minimize stress:
Supply an appropriately sized enclosure.
Provide a well-planted enclosure with plenty of privacy.
Minimize human interaction relative to the chameleon's current level of acclimation.

Environmental conditions:
Allow enclosure to dry out between misting sessions.
Provide proper humidity levels throughout the day.
Provide proper heat and light.
Avoid the use of soil on the entire enclosure bottom. Use potted plants only.
Use a sanitizing product after cleaning the enclosure. (Bleach, Nolvasan, Hydrogen peroxide, 160F(?) steam, etc.)

And don't forget the role of a good gutload in boosting the immune system :)!
Click to expand...

i am in awl of your quickness and knowledge its nice havin people on here like you that we can all count on thanks dave
 
Has he been in contact with any WC animals recently? Even a LTC one? I'm thinking maybe the WC is carrying something that it passed on to this male. Maybe something that a WC animal has antibodies for but a CB doesn't.

I'm sorry, I know I'm not being very eloquent today. Let me know if I'm not making sense. :)
 
Enclosure Pic

TreelionsUK said:
fungal or bacterial i would say,can we see a pic of you set up for him?
Click to expand...

This is a fairly recent picture of his cage. Its hard to get the whole thing in the picture, as the room is fairly narrow and I have the opposite wall lined with cages for my pet bugs and hermit crabs, etc.
The cage is wood frame, latex-painted wood peg board (allows for airflow, while obsuring view) back and two sides, acrylic doors (so I can see in easily), screen top. 2 foot width, 2 foot depth, 4 foot height, on a 2 foot stand such that top of his cage is over my head (I'm 5'2") so he can look down at me if he wishes :)
His cage is currently painted in an orange-brown, but will be repainted in black and dark brown soon.
Normally, he hangs out away from the plants (upper one is live, lower one is fake cuz its easier to clean poop off of a fake plant), in the upper middle (near his food dish - half of his feedings are from dish, other half free-range). He spends maybe 25% of his time in the upper / hottest part of the cage and rarely goes to the lower part of the cage.
There is an oscillating (sp?) fan in the room, to ensure air circulates. I also leave the window open when weather permits.
When water is dripping, there is a low-sided plastic container on the bottom to catch the water. I remove the excess water shortly afterwards.
Misting is done a couple times a day.
 

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I hope someone else chimes in on your black/brown color choice. Veild's see black as a danger color - hence when they feel threatened they turn black and brown. In some earlier discussion it was suggested that even approaching a cage in a black shirt could be threatening to them. I think the color you have it is better, however I hope someone else chimes in to agree/disagree with me.
 
BocaJan said:
I hope someone else chimes in on your black/brown color choice. Veild's see black as a danger color - hence when they feel threatened they turn black and brown. In some earlier discussion it was suggested that even approaching a cage in a black shirt could be threatening to them. I think the color you have it is better, however I hope someone else chimes in to agree/disagree with me.
Click to expand...

Wow that's interesting. I had not heard that before. Mine are panthers, not vields, but its certainly possible the theory is the same for both.

I already have two cages in black. The occupants don't seem to mind... normal colouration and behavoiur, etc. but maybe they dont like it and I just dont realize.... hm.

I'm really only painting it cuz after awhile, all the scrubbing tends to wear it down. So I end up re-painting every couple years, to ensure no water penetration. I was going with black because the chams stood out better against black. But maybe I'll play it safe and go for a nice green instead. Or maybe I'll get creative and paint green leaves on a brown background.
 
sandrachameleon said:
...But maybe I'll play it safe and go for a nice green instead. Or maybe I'll get creative and paint green leaves on a brown background.
Click to expand...
Howdy Sandra,

I like the idea of green or even a camouflage pattern :). I have read here and there about the psychological benefits for chameleons regarding environmental background colors so this sounds like the perfect time to try it out. If it takes 10 minutes to find him then you know you got the colors right :eek:.
 
Hi hows the bumps/scab's getting on??
you viv looks great,but i would change 2 things.... the stuff on the floor should go IMO and a be bare.
and would add a some more vents as the air at the bottom will stay there and get stale,a few soffit vents in the bottom will get the air moving,the hot air rising up out of the top will suck in clean air from vents in the bottom
 
TreelionsUK said:
Hi hows the bumps/scab's getting on??
you viv looks great,but i would change 2 things.... the stuff on the floor should go IMO and a be bare.
and would add a some more vents as the air at the bottom will stay there and get stale,a few soffit vents in the bottom will get the air moving,the hot air rising up out of the top will suck in clean air from vents in the bottom
Click to expand...

Hi Thanks for asking.
So far, no change to the lumps. But Trucker has gone from a docile happy camper to hating me and freaked out (because I keep having to hold him while applying the darn medicine). He even hisses and mock bites now. :mad::(

The stuff on the bottom of his cage is just a towel and/or papertowel; it alows me to remove the poop everyday easily, and soaks up any splashes of water that dont hit the collection bucket. Its changed out frequently, so no chance of bacterial growth either. Its not like a substrate that he could injest or be harmed by - just a soft floor :) Its pretty rare for him to wander on the bottom anyhow.

The two sides and back of the cage are peg board so there are hundreds of holes all the way around; there's hardware cloth screen on the top (he doesnt hang from it, so no toe damage is likely, but I use a coated wire for those cages that hold the acrobatic chams) and the doors on the front dont close tightly either (I'm not a very good carpenter) so there's plenty of air flow. There's also a big fan in the room that comes on mid-day for a few hours to ensure the room is mixed up a bit. This is a common design where I live, and works much better than the all screen enclosure I once used (but the praying mantids love it!)
Still I thank you for the advice. I think what you suggest is the right advice for most situations.
 
Update - things are looking worse

The skin leisions, whatever they are, seem to be getting worse. Certainly I am beginning to panic. I've had an old chameleon who developed age-related health issues, but I've not had a sick young chameleon before! Its devastating and my anxiety level is sky-rocketing!
New symptons
  • Appears to be drinking more
  • Eating a little less
  • Fecal is less and urate (sp?) part of waste is half orange (could be liver issues? or dehydration?)
  • Loosing weight (alarming!) ~ 28grams since beginning of this month. He's down to ~162grams (at end of August he was ~190g)
I have ceased using the Biacitracin Zinc and Neomycin Sulfate ointment stuff, as it wasnt helping, and applicaton stressed him.
Went back to vet. There goes another $200 and still no answers! Fungal culture still isnt ready - it wont be back until second week of October :( Vet took blood this time (not sure what she is testing for). Now have an oral Enrofloxacin (antibiotic?) to administer once daily. I'm sure he will hate that too.
 
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