The Importance of Temperature

I am writing this because I feel like a broken record lately. We pound UVB down every new members throats , but there are still so many temperature created problems these days. Maybe many people need to stop and review "COLD BLOODED ANIMALS". The simple concept of cold blooded animals using external sources to drive their body functions should be enough to get people to think about it.

ANALOG AND STRIP thermometers are Cheap-but they are JUNK!

A temp gun or even a $10.00 digital thermometer with a probe will ensure that your temps are within a reasonable range. Check your basking spot and an ambient spot mid and lower cage.

All temp ranges you see are guidelines, but you will still need to adjust for the individual animal.

Temperature Issues are often associated with dark colors, non-eating, sometimes day-time sleeping, etc.

The first thing I check with almost any problem is the temperature-I certainly find other things being the culprit, but it is an easy place to start.

YES! Well said, well said. It's surprising and upsetting how many people these days either can't grasp the concept of external heat regulation...or don't care. They want a cool looking animal for as cheap as they can get it - tiny glass tanks, analog thermometers, single low watt bulbs...they get the smallest, cheapest things they can get away with. I saw it a LOT at PetSmart when I worked there. Corrected them whenever possible, but most just wanted to get things cheap.

It happens with snakes as well as chams - people just want to get them as 'display' pets or for their kids without doing a scrap of research. They go off what the pet store folks tell them (which is 80% of the time a load of hooey), and get the minimal equipment. Sometimes, after seeing that the animal isn't doing that great, some of them do the research and try to fix the problems...but most just don't care.

We must emphasize that chameleons, and most other herps, all have specific needs that must be addressed for their health. Try to educate as many people as possible - education is the key!

Excellent post Julie!!!!

Excellent reminder Julie! You are right about those strip things. Plus you would have to plaster the cage to get readings from top to bottom. Temperature really does drive everything else that happens with them. They can not digest food unless it is at a proper range. It will sit in their digestive tract and cause problems if not warm enough. Their metabolism is based on temperature. They need the higher basking temperatures to get the metabolism going for the processing of food into energy and energy into movement.

Temperature can even effect parasites and bacterial growth in the gut and elsewhere. Most wild caught lizards have internal parasites and possibly Salmonella. Salmonella is actually fairly common in nature and there are dozens of strains of it. Some benign and some agressive. I've bought a lot of captive bred chameleons and there were a surprising number of them with parasites. Even one with a nasty Salmonella population. Parasites and Salmonella are kept in check out in nature to some degree by a proper load of good bacteria in the reptile gut. A sort of "balance" is achieved and the reptile survives. Colder temperatures throw this balance off. The good bacteria does not flourish and the parasites or Salmonella take off and overwhelm the reptile. They are less affected by the colder temperatures. A boost in temperature higher than the one normally needed and an introduction of good bacteria is needed while treating reptiles with large parasite loads.

Bacterial infections are affected by temperature as well. Reptiles immune systems are affected by temperature. Long-term lower than ideal temperatures can cause the immune system to degrade. Bacteria is present in and around a reptile no matter how clean you keep things. A little bit is on everything they eat. It's not a problem when the reptile has a good immune system. With a degraded immune system the bacteria can take root and and infection sets in. A boost in temperature, higher even than the one needed normally, is needed to fight the infection along with antibiotics.

Unfortunately, we see a lot of chams come through here after they have developed some sort of issue. But as Julie stated, a lot of this issues can be traced back to or are worsened by improper temperatures.....

Julirs said:

I am writing this because I feel like a broken record lately. We pound UVB down every new members throats , but there are still so many temperature created problems these days. Maybe many people need to stop and review "COLD BLOODED ANIMALS". The simple concept of cold blooded animals using external sources to drive their body functions should be enough to get people to think about it.

ANALOG AND STRIP thermometers are Cheap-but they are JUNK!

A temp gun or even a $10.00 digital thermometer with a probe will ensure that your temps are within a reasonable range. Check your basking spot and an ambient spot mid and lower cage.

All temp ranges you see are guidelines, but you will still need to adjust for the individual animal.

Temperature Issues are often associated with dark colors, non-eating, sometimes day-time sleeping, etc.

The first thing I check with almost any problem is the temperature-I certainly find other things being the culprit, but it is an easy place to start.

Click to expand...

Hey Julirs what about these? are they junk lol?

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog.../-/flukers-digital-thermometerhumidity-guage/ <<<<<There

veiledchamguy said:

Hey Julirs what about these? are they junk lol?

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog.../-/flukers-digital-thermometerhumidity-guage/ <<<<<There

Click to expand...

I know my name is not Julirs, but I've had several of those and they are ok as long as they don't get wet (which can be tricky in cham enclosures).
Tempguns are the way to go.

Sepioteuthis said:

I know my name is not Julirs, but I've had several of those and they are ok as long as they don't get wet (which can be tricky in cham enclosures).
Tempguns are the way to go.

Click to expand...

Thanks Sepio ill remember that

Great post Julirs.

And I like the look of those flukers temp/hygrometers, veiledchamguy. I had not seen those before.

We get rescues off Craigslist. And also people often call us for advice about using reptaid on their reptiles. I can't even tell you how many of these reptile owners don't even know what their cage temps are. No wonder they have problems.

We use temp gauges, probes, and a heat gun. I actually have to re-check temps occasionally and adjust things.

One other thing I have noticed is that as the plants inside the cages grow, they can block portions of the basking area and cause other water and temp changes. So, I have to visually check for that, too, and clip back branches regularly. Even a misting system isn't much good if the water just hits 2 rogue leaves and then rolls down the corner of the cage. And the basking spot isn't much good if the poor guy looks like he's sitting there under a scheflera umbrella. Plus, even though I set things up and measure the temps initially- my chameleon won't always sit to bask exactly where I think it will. SOmetimes I've even had to move the lamp to the other side of the cage top, because the cham prefers to sit, cold and dark, on the other side. Once I make the adjustment, things are fine. They do have their little idiosyncracies. Observation is a big part of caring for these guys.

Nice post julirs, people sometimes tend to over look the most "fundamental" parts of chameleon husbandry..This post is a good reminder..

Julirs said:

I am writing this because I feel like a broken record lately. We pound UVB down every new members throats , but there are still so many temperature created problems these days. Maybe many people need to stop and review "COLD BLOODED ANIMALS". The simple concept of cold blooded animals using external sources to drive their body functions should be enough to get people to think about it.

ANALOG AND STRIP thermometers are Cheap-but they are JUNK!

A temp gun or even a $10.00 digital thermometer with a probe will ensure that your temps are within a reasonable range. Check your basking spot and an ambient spot mid and lower cage.

All temp ranges you see are guidelines, but you will still need to adjust for the individual animal.

Temperature Issues are often associated with dark colors, non-eating, sometimes day-time sleeping, etc.

The first thing I check with almost any problem is the temperature-I certainly find other things being the culprit, but it is an easy place to start.

Click to expand...

Juli do you have the brand name of a good temp gun? I use digitals I bought at radio shack. If you tell me what to get I can order it off the net. thanks

Sepioteuthis said:

I know my name is not Julirs, but I've had several of those and they are ok as long as they don't get wet (which can be tricky in cham enclosures).
Tempguns are the way to go.

Click to expand...

agreed!
I used those and they get wet during misting and broke after a day or two.
For 15 dollars, I don't really like what I am getting.
Perhaps, 6 bucks would be a better price for that fluker thing.
I used Acurite digital thermometer with probe and built in hygrometer for 12 bucks at walmart. I have been happy ever since.

I am not Juli
but temp gun i used is Pro Exotics 3
http://www.tempgun.com/main.html

the PE2 is probably better since it's more affordable and does the job as well as PE3

Man-I am so glad you guys realize you are not me!

AGREE. This is a major issue that I just had with Leo and glad I caught it right away. The temp changing between rooms due to drafty windows was registering the dig wrong and it was much hotter than though. I do use a Dig but apparently it got confused but everything is on track! I want to get a dig therm/hygrometer in one. are these reliable?

Good thermometer/hygrometer combo = Acurite probed unit. (I use for all my snakes)

Good temp gun = Pro Exotics (PE) series. I have the PE1 and like it, but if I ever could, I'd get one with a better range.

For anyone referring back to this post, perhaps we should list what the temperature ranges (day and night ranges) should be for the various types of captively kept chameleons?

Veiled/Chamaeleo:
day basking spot 96.5F/36C
day cooler spot / ambient range 70-80F/21 -26C
night to a low of 60F/15.5C

Panther/Fucifer:
day basking spot 90F/32C
day cooler spot / ambient range 70-80F /21 -26C
night to a low of 65F/18C

Rhampholeon/Pygmy

Kinyongia/fischer's

oh gads, the list would be so long! especially if one starts thinking about young vs old, female vs male. ugh. NEVER MIND!

Oops...I did it again....

sandrachameleon said:

Panther/Fucifer:
day basking spot 90F/32C
day cooler spot / ambient range 70-80F /21 -26C
night to a low of 65F/18C

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Once again, I am going to take issue with the low temperature of 65 degrees at night for Panthers. I am going to suggest that people new to keeping Panthers and those getting a new Panther chameleon do not go below 70 degrees at night. I pulled out six books that had information on Panthers. Two of the six said they could go down to 65 degrees. The others indicated the nightime low should be in the 70's and which would be a 10 degree drop from the daytime temperatures. One book, "Chameleons Nature's Hidden Jewels" by Petr Necas goes as far to say that two days exposure at temperatures near 20 degrees C (68 degrees F) can cause metabolic issues. One of the ones that said you could go down to 65 degrees for adults said not below 70 degrees at night for babies.

Most of the time the chameleons in Madagascar are living in 70 to mid 80 degree weather during the day and night. They do their best living then. There is a cool season there when things get colder at night. The eggs are under the ground undergoing diapause. They are somewhat insulated from the weather too. Many adult chams die in Madagascar during this time period. Many females live for only one breeding season. Males maybe a couple. There are some old-timers to be sure, but the average cham in Madagascar has a short life. The cooler season temperatures are a factor in die off. It slows down their metabolism and suppresses the immune system. The eggs hatch when the earth warms up in a sustained manner to provide the 70 degree minimum temperatures they need to survive. If experienced keepers want to disregard my advise, fine....I have no problem with you doing what you want. I feel that keepers new to Panthers need to be more cautious. Panthers are not as hardy as Veileds are. Veiled can not only survive, but thrive at significantly lower and higher temperatures than Panthers can. Many people have kept Veileds and then got a Panther. More than one person has not realized that you can't keep them the same way.

Perhaps you failed to notice that I indicated the LOW would be 65F. While they are QUITE CAPABLE of dealing with LOWER than 65F, I was not suggesting they be typically kept at less than 65Ftemp at night. Any healthy chameleon will appreciate a drop of temp at night. 65F is perfectly acceptable, even IMHO preferable. While an unhealthy chameleon could be kept at consitently higher temps, such as 70F at night, this is certainly not necessary for healthy adult individuals.
None of my adults have been coddled, they have all enjoyed 65Fish at night in winter. They live long, healthy lives not whatsoever shortened from this perfectly acceptable temp.

You've made your argument, I've summarized mine.
Lets not repeat a previous discussion, eh?
arguing with me is not what the thread was intended to be about.

I agree...

I agree about not arguing....I just want to make sure that other view points and the reasons for them are presented for consideration. Not to do so would convey the impression that what you presented in this thread is a standard that all Panther keepers should practice.

I am bumping this because I think there are some new members that need to be aware...

Good Bump........

Good bump Julirs......People need to read this thread from the beginning though to get everything into context

If a keeper wants to raise the temperature, and the room temp is 65 degrees or so, would you;

1) raise the total room temperature

2) increase the basking spot

3) let heat rise from a heat bulb on a side of the cage

Often, #1 is not possible.

#2 only works if the cham chooses to bask more.

#3 may not get much heat in the enclosure.

Nick