Yoshi Vomiting

[bootsiemonroe]

My Veiled Cham a little over a year old was diagnosed with metabolic bone disease by the vet a few days ago, I started hand feeding him, and supplimenting him. He has not offered to eat. Yesterday he vomited. He is now back at the vet, I am anxiously awaiting the outcome. According to his labs on the first visit, his kidneys were OK. And he started perking up. Does anyone know what could have caused him to vomit? Or what vomiting means? I will probably find out later today from my vet, but I am so worried. Another question, what I believe lead to this is he is a picky eater. He quit eating cricket all together. He only wants super worms and goliath worms, those big green ones. I think this caused him to not get enough nutrition. How do you get a chameleon to eat a balanced diet?

 

[bootsiemonroe]

Update

I was told by the vet that his kidneys may be effected. They are giving him fluids, and adding some meds, one for his stomach, and one for the bloodflow to his kidneys. May I say, if you have a sick cham, take him to the vet! I do hope Yoshi can pull out of this, this all started with him becoming a picky eater. I still dont know how to fix the cause of the problem, but I have to focus on Yoshi right now, and hopefully, he will get well.

 

[ReptileLove18]

i hope he gets better too, keep us posted! what was the cause of the kidney problems? did the vet say?
i hope the best for you and Yoshi you did the right thing taking him to the vet and getting him the help he needs and now you just gotta help him thru this

 

[Chachachameleon]

Just leave the crickets in the cage and change their gutload possibly for a different taste, if you leave them and not feed him worms for a few days hell get hungry and be forced to eat it! but yea good luck with your cham, that blows. hopefully he will recover!

 

[nightanole]

Mine will vomit if it gets tanted veg or insects. Last time was i didnt clean off the black fly larva.

Also it seems all my animals (dog cat lizard) die from kidney failure or liver failure. Guess thats the first organs to go since they are the filters...

 

[bootsiemonroe]

The vet said that the kidneys were failing from the low calcium to start with. And about the crickets, I have tried to leave them in there. I have left them in there until the crickets died, and he still did not eat them. But I am going to try a different gutload, that is a good idea, what kinds do you use? I had been using Flukers calium enriched food

 

[Lovereps]

I hope your Yoshi heals quickly for you.
If he doen't have a warm enough basking spot, the food won't digest properly. If I'm not mistaken, too little calcium also affects digestion and maybe that is the cause of the vomiting.
Some parasites will cause vomiting but he has probably been checked for those by your vet.
With a calcium deficient cham, I would not be leaving crickets in the cage to roam around.
There would most likely be no calcium powder on them by the time they are eaten.
Crickets are a bad feeder without calcium dust because without calcium dust they provide too little usable calcium due to their higher phosphorus content.
MBD typically develops from improper diet or improper supplements or even from lack of exposure to enough UVB. There are other causes but these are the most common ones.
The UVB bulbs stop emitting enough UVB at around 6 months and need to be replaced even though they still light up.

Below is an excellent caresheet which tells you the proper calcium and vitamin dusting schedules and other things that you'll need to know for him to recover and stay well.
Calcium without any D3 should be used at most feedings.
More details here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/


Phoenixworms/calciworms are higher in calcium/lower in phosphorus and would be a much better feeder than crickets for a cham recovering from MBD
http://www.phoenixworm.com/servlet/the-template/comparison/Page
Silkworms, dubias and hornworms are also good feeders, though not as good a calcium to phosphorus ratio as the Phoenixworms--they are all a better ratio than crickets are.
Commercial gutloads are not the best and if this is what you're using, it is not a gutload, it's just to keep the crickets hydrated plus a little calcium
http://www.flukerfarms.com/flukerscricketquencherwithcalcium.aspx.



For gutloading, try this:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...just-crickets-roaches-gutload-everything.html

 

[bootsiemonroe]

Thank you for all of your very good information. I can only do what my vet has told me, and I did change his lights. I have never let the crickets run lose, he is bowl fed. I was told they can bug a cham if left to run in the cage. There has been on or two escapees every now and then, but if loose for too long, I get them and put them back in the bowl. The vet recomended a heat lamp for night while he is sick, that is something new. So I am going to add that.

 

[bootsiemonroe]

May I just say if you have a sick cham, take him to fhe vet as soon as possible. Yoshi is not completely out of the woods yet, but he is getting stronger every day. And his colors are more in the happy range. He has been my little buddy for almost a year now, and I can't see life without him. It is sad, the vet said some people tell him that they are just replaceable. I could never replace Yoshi. I am so thankful he is improving, and pray he continues to do so.

 

[StreetMoggy]

May I just say if you have a sick cham, take him to fhe vet as soon as possible. Yoshi is not completely out of the woods yet, but he is getting stronger every day. And his colors are more in the happy range. He has been my little buddy for almost a year now, and I can't see life without him. It is sad, the vet said some people tell him that they are just replaceable. I could never replace Yoshi. I am so thankful he is improving, and pray he continues to do so.

Aww, I'm happy things are looking up!
I was under the impression that super worms were not really the most nutritious. You could try switching him to soft body worms, like wax worms, silk worms and horn worms.
I gut load these 3 with collards greens, they will eat it, so they are super pumped with calcium and vitamins when your cham eats them. These worms all move around a lot, so hopefully they get his attention. Having a variety in anyone's diet is always beneficial despite the species.

I really hope Yoshi continues to get stronger. Awesome name by the way.

 

[Lovereps]

Aww, I'm happy things are looking up!
I was under the impression that super worms were not really the most nutritious. You could try switching him to soft body worms, like wax worms, silk worms and horn worms.
I gut load these 3 with collards greens, they will eat it, so they are super pumped with calcium and vitamins when your cham eats them. These worms all move around a lot, so hopefully they get his attention. Having a variety in anyone's diet is always beneficial despite the species.

I really hope Yoshi continues to get stronger. Awesome name by the way.

StreetMoggy, some of your facts aren't quite right.
The more variety in both feeders and gutloads that you provide, the better.

Waxworms and superworms should be limited more so than silkworms and hornworms--because they are higher in fat/lower in calcium.
Blue Bottle flies, Phoenixworms/Calciworms and Dubias are also better feeders than waxworm and superworms.
You are right in that gutloading feeders with nutritious veggies and fruits is essential to ensure maximum nutrition for your cham.
One guide to gutloads is here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html

 

[bootsiemonroe]

Yoshi Update

Don't let anyone tell you, that you can't bring a Cham back from Metabolic Bone Disease. With tender loving care, and meticulous oversight on my part, Yoshi is now back to perfect health. His Labs were perfect! yes it cost a little more money for me to have the vet re-draw his labs after a month of vitamin supplements, and handfeedings, but it was well worth it. His blood levels like calcium, phosphorus and all the values that were out of whack, are now right where they need to be. And he is eating again. I am trying Dubia roaches, although he has not shown much interest yet. He seems to like the Silk Worms though. But I will say, before this incident, he was hand tame, even eating out of my hand, and now after a month of messing with him twice a day, he is very mad even when I come near his cage. Oh well, it was worth saving his life. Now, if I can only figure out how to not make him so picky. That is what cause this whole problem in the first place, being a picky eater. ......

 

[ChuWuti]

Congratulations on bringing him back to the peak of health! As time passes, he'll become more relaxed again, I'll bet. As long as you keep offering a variety of foods, he'll be more likely to become less picky.

Have you tried the cricket feeder cups? Examples are here:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/sprite-bottle-insect-feeder-101782/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/custom-made-cricket-feeder-80015/

https://www.chameleonforums.com/feeder-cups-87580/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1acx7nkCLg&feature=related

Most people put the top at the bottom so that the cap end can be used for drainage, I believe; I haven't tried this yet myself but that's what I've read anyway. I have two 2-liter green ginger ale bottles I'm going to make into cricket feeders following the designs shown in the above links. I wanted green so it would kind of "disappear" amongst the foliage.

Anyway, if the crickets are a little easier to find, maybe he'll be more likely to eat them?? Just guessing, but it might be worth a try. You'll still have to dust them regularly, but you'll be able to monitor his intake more easily, find dead crickets and remove them, etc.

Good luck!

Sandy

 

[bootsiemonroe]

That is a great idea, currently I put them in dishes, I will try that. Thank you for the resources!

 

[Carlton]

Thank you for all of your very good information. I can only do what my vet has told me, and I did change his lights. I have never let the crickets run lose, he is bowl fed. I was told they can bug a cham if left to run in the cage. There has been on or two escapees every now and then, but if loose for too long, I get them and put them back in the bowl. The vet recomended a heat lamp for night while he is sick, that is something new. So I am going to add that.

Remember that chams have small stomachs and no sphincter to prevent food or liquids from backing up into their throats. If you are hand feeding or forcing meds, liquids, etc. he might have vomited because his stomach was overflowing. Just a thought.

 

[Lovereps]

Glad Yoshi is back to good health!
As ChuWuti said, he will get back to trusting you in time.
Congrats on getting your cham back in good shape.

 

[carol5208]

Don't let anyone tell you, that you can't bring a Cham back from Metabolic Bone Disease. With tender loving care, and meticulous oversight on my part, Yoshi is now back to perfect health. His Labs were perfect! yes it cost a little more money for me to have the vet re-draw his labs after a month of vitamin supplements, and handfeedings, but it was well worth it. His blood levels like calcium, phosphorus and all the values that were out of whack, are now right where they need to be. And he is eating again. I am trying Dubia roaches, although he has not shown much interest yet. He seems to like the Silk Worms though. But I will say, before this incident, he was hand tame, even eating out of my hand, and now after a month of messing with him twice a day, he is very mad even when I come near his cage. Oh well, it was worth saving his life. Now, if I can only figure out how to not make him so picky. That is what cause this whole problem in the first place, being a picky eater. ......

I think what people mean is when the limbs are all curvy that you can not make them straight again. That is when MBD cannot be reversed. Your chameleon had not gotten to that extreme. Glad your cham is doing better. Also, what symptoms of MBD did you chameleon have that your vet diagnosed him with it?

 

[bootsiemonroe]

MBD Symptoms I noticed

I noticed first of all his problem started when he became a picky eater. I could not get him to eat crickets, he would only eat superworms. I tried but failed, the crickets would lay in the cup until they died. So, after 3 months of this picky eating stage, I tried numerous types of worms, goliaths, Phoenix, and a roach I can't remember what kind, but could not find Dubia at the time. He only would eat Superworms and an occasional Goliath. Then he stopped eating all together. After 4 days of not eating and his colors were dark, I took him to the vet. Xrays and blood work revealed the diagnosis of MBD. Yes it cost extra money, but worth the money. After 30 days of hand feeding and medicine twice a day, his blood work now shows he is back to normal. He was only eating poorly for a few months, so I am assuming that I was able to reverse it because of my good care in the past, and my acute attention to the problem when he became ill and sought out professional help. I love Yoshi, and let me just say this, if you are going to be a cham owner, it is a responsibility to the animal to do you part in taking care of them. They are totally dependant on you to care for them in all areas.