Why do eye infections occur?

[Calypso2013]

Three months of agony, from the time we brought him home from the Phoenix expo to this Thursday. Best vet in the area saw Calypso. The eye drops prescribed never seemed to work. Calypso couldn't see his food and stopped eating. Though he would drink a lot when held under the faucet a few times a day. He just stopped having the will to live. Forcing the eye drops on him seemed to stress him out completely and take all the life out of him. All husbandry completely up to par. I researched for months before getting him.

Though at the very end, I knew he was dying, I held out hope. He was way to young when we bought him and so delicate.

I miss him terribly. We tried so hard. My husband wants to try again in a few months, but I can't get over the guilt.

Any ideas?

 

[symphonica]

I've never been very pleased with the selection at the expo. I also saw one with a horrible eye injury where nothing had been done about it. If you ever want another, get one from a reputable breeder, and you should have much better luck. Sometimes, saving the money on the animal at "discount" prices from expos and such, doesn't end up being worth it in the end.

 

[carol5208]

It doesn't sound like you should have anything to feel guilty about. You got him to a vet and tried to treat him and did the best you could. I would not let this one experience sour you on owning another. Yes, it is sad that the little guy did not make it, but as the other member said, buy from one of our sponsors and you should have better luck. I am curious, was the eye problems in both eyes? Was there any discharge coming out of his eyes or were they just closed?

 

[fluxlizard]

I am truly sorry for the loss of your animal.

It is possible that your animal was simply a runt that had genetic problems to begin with. By comparison- my four month old veileds are nearly adult size.

see some pics of my hatchlings at 6 week and 9 weeks from pics taken of a group a couple of years ago here and compare size with yours at 4 months:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/veiled-chameleon-growth-chart-23892/index2.html#post1094360

Secondly- eye problem- this is where I disagree a bit with with current forum guidelines for babies. Instead I'll just leave you this thought about the topic from Bert Langerwerf (one of the best lizard breeders ever to walk the earth- pioneered much of what we know about lizard husbandry and was the first to breed superworms as lizard food). When the Langerwerf's found out my father was a veterinarian, they said "OH! Vets! When there is an eye infection veterinarians always say "The lizard has an infection!" And then they want to use antibiotics and treat the infection. They never want to ask why is there an infection in the first place." They explained that wild lizards eat insects that are loaded with carotinoids from eating green leaves all the time. Captive lizards don't get this usually, unless the insects are fed a very good diet. And sometimes vit a is necessary as well to prevent eye infections.

Sometimes (very often) a bit of vit a will clear up an eye infection within a few treatments, and regular appropriate use will prevent most infections of this sort. It isn't the same approach as the antibiotic. Both have their place. But the vitamin a keeps the body functioning as it should, to prevent and fight infection on it's own. Without it, the antibiotic may not even work anyway because it is inappropriately prescribed. I've been there done/that myself with veterinary treatment of chameleons with eye problems. Tried using no vit a, only beta carotene on some panthers to see if I could get away without vit a, had eye infections within several months. Got antibiotic ointment from a vet, did nothing over a couple of weeks. Stopped the antibiotic ointment, gave in to the probability that beta carotene was not being converted by the lizards into vit a, gave the panthers actual vit a from drops from a capsule, and within 5 days had no more eye infections.

I'm not saying for sure this is what happened with yours or that your vet was not giving appropriate treatment- I don't know, I wasn't there, but this is one that bugs me a lot- 1x per month with vit a in a multivitamin will not do much for a young rapidly growing chameleon. It will help for a few days, but then the vitamins are used up/passed from the lizard. So the rest of the month it will be deficient. In the past with tiny babies with eyes that closed- I found that misting them and getting their eyes open and then immediately feeding reptivite-dusted insects, and repeating this for 2 or 3 meals in a row, will usually bring them back to a healthy condition. I had to learn that bit the hard way many years ago before I learned to use a multivitamin a bit more often than 1x per month (been breeding veileds 23 years now).

My final thought is if your husband wants to try again, try to buy a chameleon that is a bit older/larger than the one you tried with this time. As they get larger, they do become easier to care for, and you are less likely to end up with a genetic runt on your hands, or an animal that had a bad start in life.

Don't feel guilty- you did the best you could with the knowledge you had, and because of the size of your animal, I'd say it is probable that he was a genetic runt probably doomed from the beginning...

 

[carol5208]

I am truly sorry for the loss of your animal.

It is possible that your animal was simply a runt that had genetic problems to begin with. By comparison- my four month old veileds are nearly adult size.

see some pics of my hatchlings at 6 week and 9 weeks from pics taken of a group a couple of years ago here and compare size with yours at 4 months:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/veiled-chameleon-growth-chart-23892/index2.html#post1094360

Secondly- eye problem- this is where I disagree a bit with with current forum guidelines for babies. Instead I'll just leave you this thought about the topic from Bert Langerwerf (one of the best lizard breeders ever to walk the earth- pioneered much of what we know about lizard husbandry and was the first to breed superworms as lizard food). When the Langerwerf's found out my father was a veterinarian, they said "OH! Vets! When there is an eye infection veterinarians always say "The lizard has an infection!" And then they want to use antibiotics and treat the infection. They never want to ask why is there an infection in the first place." They explained that wild lizards eat insects that are loaded with carotinoids from eating green leaves all the time. Captive lizards don't get this usually, unless the insects are fed a very good diet. And sometimes vit a is necessary as well to prevent eye infections.

Sometimes (very often) a bit of vit a will clear up an eye infection within a few treatments, and regular appropriate use will prevent most infections of this sort. It isn't the same approach as the antibiotic. Both have their place. But the vitamin a keeps the body functioning as it should, to prevent and fight infection on it's own. Without it, the antibiotic may not even work anyway because it is inappropriately prescribed. I've been there done/that myself with veterinary treatment of chameleons with eye problems. Tried using no vit a, only beta carotene on some panthers to see if I could get away without vit a, had eye infections within several months. Got antibiotic ointment from a vet, did nothing over a couple of weeks. Stopped the antibiotic ointment, gave in to the probability that beta carotene was not being converted by the lizards into vit a, gave the panthers actual vit a from drops from a capsule, and within 5 days had no more eye infections.

I'm not saying for sure this is what happened with yours or that your vet was not giving appropriate treatment- I don't know, I wasn't there, but this is one that bugs me a lot- 1x per month with vit a in a multivitamin will not do much for a young rapidly growing chameleon. It will help for a few days, but then the vitamins are used up/passed from the lizard. So the rest of the month it will be deficient. In the past with tiny babies with eyes that closed- I found that misting them and getting their eyes open and then immediately feeding reptivite-dusted insects, and repeating this for 2 or 3 meals in a row, will usually bring them back to a healthy condition. I had to learn that bit the hard way many years ago before I learned to use a multivitamin a bit more often than 1x per month (been breeding veileds 23 years now).

My final thought is if your husband wants to try again, try to buy a chameleon that is a bit older/larger than the one you tried with this time. As they get larger, they do become easier to care for, and you are less likely to end up with a genetic runt on your hands, or an animal that had a bad start in life.

Don't feel guilty- you did the best you could with the knowledge you had, and because of the size of your animal, I'd say it is probable that he was a genetic runt probably doomed from the beginning...

What an AWESOME post!! Thank you for taking the time to write. I have much to learn, but am greatful to members like you that write such informative posts . That is why I asked if there was an actual infection present, and if not, antibiotics are not always the way to go.

 

[Psychobunny]

It's not your fault, don't blame yourself, but please don't let this make you
loose interest completely.
Best thing you could do would be to get another cham.
Only this time, buy one from one of our trusted sponsors or senior members
who breed.
Anyone in this hobby long enough, has experienced grief with sick chams, and
the pain of loosing them.

Don't give up, sounds like your husband is supporting and understanding.

 

[Calypso2013]

Thank you for your replies...

When I took him to the vet, the vet was able to smoosh out some "eye pus" with his forceps. But then Calypso started keeping the other eye closed a couple of days later and so it does seem like it was more of a runt or vitamin issue. He was only 5 grams at 4-5 months, so totally tiny and only shed once in the time that we had him (I don't think the vet asked how old I thought he was, so he probably assumed much younger). At the vet visit, Calypso was active and the vet commented that he looked healthy and well taken care of.

Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate your feedback and I will use all of the information you all gave me.

Thanks again!