weak chameleon HELP!!

[jpg1988]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambanja blue bar, 7 months male
Handling - twice a week
Feeding - crickets, mealworms gutload with fluckers
Supplements - Rep-cal
Watering -mist 4 times a day use aqua zamp
Fecal Description - greenish no parasite test

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen wooden enclosure
Lighting - reptisun uvb fluoresent, basking light
Temperature - average temp is 27°C at night 20 °C
Humidity -average humidity 40%
Plants - umbrella tree
Placement - in my room in the corner, low traffic area
Location - Mexico

Current Problem - Cham seems to be very weak, can´t climb, fell a couple of times about 2 inches high, very slow moving. I found him at the bottom of his cage. It seems as if he can´t stand with the legs straight he doesn´t walk that much he seems to crawl because of innability or weakness in the legs

 

[jade4321]

I might be able to help you, can you post a pic?

 

[Solid Snake]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambanja blue bar, 7 months male
Handling - twice a week
Feeding - crickets, mealworms gutload with fluckers
Supplements - Rep-calWhat Rep-Cal supplements exactly? How often?
Watering -mist 4 times a day use aqua zamp
Fecal Description - greenish no parasite testGreenish is not normal at all.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - screen wooden enclosure
Lighting - reptisun uvb fluoresent, basking lighta 2.0? 5.0? or 10.0?
What watt basking light?
Temperature - average temp is 27°C at night 20 °CBasking should be at 30-35C, ambient at 20-25C. Nite temps can go as low as 10C without the need for additional heat.
Humidity -average humidity 40%
Ambient RH should be kept above 50%
Plants - umbrella tree
Placement - in my room in the corner, low traffic area
Location - Mexico

Current Problem - Cham seems to be very weak, can´t climb, fell a couple of times about 2 inches high, very slow moving. I found him at the bottom of his cage. It seems as if he can´t stand with the legs straight he doesn´t walk that much he seems to crawl because of innability or weakness in the legs

This is likely a supplement or illness issue.
Answer my questions and post a pic of both the animal, and its house if you can please.

 

[jpg1988]

yeah just a sec...

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi!

What is your temperature range? What's the temperature under the basking bulb and the temperature at the bottom? I see Solid Snake has given you a good range to shoot for. Also, as he notes, you want a cool down at night.

Could you take a picture of the poop?

I agree with Solid Snake that it's likely either a supplement issue or an illness. However, being too hot and under hydrated can make things like that much harder on the animal.

 

[jpg1988]

missing info is 5.0 repti sun...basking light 75W, repcal multivitamins and calcium with D3, fluckers orange cubes

 

[Panthergirl11]

I think I see mbd

 

[Solid Snake]

missing info is 5.0 repti sun...basking light 75W, repcal multivitamins and calcium with D3, fluckers orange cubes

What schedule do you use these supplements, and how old is the UVB light?

 

[jpg1988]

supplement 2 times per week, uvb is 2 months old

 

[Solid Snake]

supplement 2 times per week, uvb is 2 months old

You will need to be more clear.
Do you use them once a week each?
Both 2 times a week each?

 

[Solid Snake]

Can the chameleon stand?
Or does it crawl like it looks like its doing in the pictures?

 

[CamiGirl89]

Could be a supplementation issue... Could you post a few more pics of him? And maybe of his enclosure? Those round front arms worry me :/

 

[jpg1988]

I normally dust feeders with both. I have 2 separate cointainers which I dust twice a week

 

[Panthergirl11]

Yea his front arms worry me too.

 

[jpg1988]

he can barely stand, he shakes a lot when he is climbing.
I dont have my enclosure here because I decided to make some mods...added a fake background so Its outside drying...for now i have the uvb, basking light and some jungle vines with foliage on a temporal cage...It has just been in that cage for 2 days...i will post a pic of the temporal enclosure

 

[Solid Snake]

I normally dust feeders with both. I have 2 separate cointainers which I dust twice a week

A normal schedule is:
Plain Straight Calcium everyday
Multivitamin 2 times a month
Calcium with D3 2 times a month


I believe your chameleon may have MBD.
Please look at Kinyonga's post in this thread.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/possible-mbd-76426/

Also, D3 overdose can cause weakness, and many other issues.

 

[CamiGirl89]

I normally dust feeders with both. I have 2 separate cointainers which I dust twice a week

Do you use the supplements with D3 2x a week? If so, that is a bit too much. You can purchase supplements without D3 that can be given to them that much, but D3 is only needed about 2 feedings a month. How much do you feed your panther? How many crickets, mealworms, etc?

 

[jpg1988]

I will start him with a strict supplement diet and tell you the results
yes calcium seems to have D3, I will stop supplementing that type of calcium and give him one without D3, can MBD be reversed?...Is he going to get back to normal again?

 

[Solid Snake]

I will start him with a strict supplement diet and tell you the results
yes calcium seems to have D3, I will stop supplementing that type of calcium and give him one without D3, can MBD be reversed?...Is he going to get back to normal again?

It can be cured but not reversed.
Meaning that any defomities to his bones are permanent, but he can heal fully and be a normal chameleon

It doesnt seem from those pictures that he is very bad.

You may want to stop D3 for a whole month, give his system time to clean out.
Then just use plain calcium everyday, and one sunday give the multi, and the next sunday give the D3.

I highly recomend taking him to the vet!!!!!!!!

I have no experience with MBD, but there is a lot of info on it here.
At the very top of the health forum, there is a sticky on MBD.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Definitely metabolic bone disease. You need to Take action now to correct the calcium deficit so he can start to heal in order to recover. It sounds like it is already getting into advanced stages and if it goes on much longer without treatment his bones could start breaking from just his own weight because they are so weak. Here is a quick summary of MBD: https://www.chameleonforums.com/frequently-asked-questions-71620/#post668825

He needs as much calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) and UVB as he can get right now to replace his calcium deficit. You need to improve what you feed him drastically in addition to oral calcium supplementation. Here is a quick summary of gutloading: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html. You want the calcium content of his food to be very high, and the Flukers gutloading food does not have nearly enough in it at all.

Gutloading is the process of working through the food chain to feed the prey animals the nutrition that your insectivore pet needs to replicate what they would eat in nature. Crickets are basically just water and chitin (not very nutritious or digestible) and the pet stores only feed them cardboard, or potato at most, so feeding crickets directly after you get them from the pet store or vendor is not providing much in the way of nutrition to your pet. Supplementing with a calcium and/or multivitamin powder is important, but not sufficient alone for proper nutrition in any species. Gut loading can't be done in all feeders but is very easy in crickets and super worms - two common feeder bugs.

How do you chose what to use? Gutloading ingredients should be chosen that are higher in calcium than phosphorus. High phosphorus levels in the food impedes calcium absorption. Inadequate dietary calcium leads to metabolic bone disease. Commercially available gutloads (such as Fluker Farms Cricket Food) are not balanced or sufficient for good nutrition in any species. Ideally there should be a wet and dry component to your gut load:

Good Wet Gutloading Ingredients: dandelion leaves, collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, escarole lettuce, butternut squash, carrots, mango, alfalfa sprouts, oranges, blueberries, raspberries, sweet potato, strawberries, hibiscus leaves and flowers, papaya

Good Dry Gutload Ingredients: bee pollen, alfalfa powder, kelp powder, brewer’s yeast, wheat germ, raw uncooked sunflower seeds, raw uncooked pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, small amounts of whole grain cereals, spirulina algae, tortoise pellets

Foods to AVOID: Broccoli, spinach, beets, and parsley, have large amounts of oxalic acids which bind calcium absorption. Lettuces and cabbage do not have any significant nutritional value. Also, avoid things like dog food, cat food, and fish flakes which are high in animal proteins which can cause kidney damage. Feeding such things like pinky-mice, fuzzies, and feeder anoles that are extremely high in fat and protein content is harmful to your chameleon's health, bones and organs that can lead to serious illnesses like gout, edema, organ failure and fatality.


This site has nutritional info on many commonly available fruits and veggies to help guide you in choosing good gut loading ingredients: http://www.greenigsociety.org/foodchart.htm

MBD can be fixable, but you'll need to act now and continue good feeding practices in the future!