me n the wife are looking to keep 1 or 2 panther chameleons n i want to get a mesh style enclosure but two of my local shop keepers have said that they are not suitable but my mate keeps his panther in one. i live in england in a house with central heating. i have two kids my youngest is 3, cat and dog. im also looking to use a fogger system for humidity any advice that u could offer we would be greatful for thanks for your time Mr n Mrs B !
vivarium mesh or glass??
- Thread starter Blendin
- Start date
amanda509
New Member
screen/mesh is preferred because chameleons have sensitive lungs and need good airflow. but a glass terrarium is acceptable as long as its a terrarium, not a fish tank. terrariums are made to have ventilation while a tank is not. using mesh you will have to keep a close eye on humidity, but there are things you can do to help like covering a side or two with plastic or a towel, whereas a glass terrarium keep humidity pretty constant. there are pros and cons to both, so you should choose something that will provide the most benefits to your lifestyle 
lindawaz
New Member
I have a mesh cage. It is lighter, cheaper and more use it so more resources when an issue.
But I have read many of these threads glass/mesh. There are pros and cons to both.
People have had great success rate with both. It can not be the fish tank that is for fish.
It needs to have the vents at the bottom and mesh top. This creates a natural air exchange ( hot air rises out pulling in fresh from the bottom).
You need to make the decision after hearing from keepers that use the glass and the forum is filled with people that use mesh.
Good Luck in your quest for the right cage for you. The Cham will be happy in either as long as you give them what they need
But I have read many of these threads glass/mesh. There are pros and cons to both.
People have had great success rate with both. It can not be the fish tank that is for fish.
It needs to have the vents at the bottom and mesh top. This creates a natural air exchange ( hot air rises out pulling in fresh from the bottom).
You need to make the decision after hearing from keepers that use the glass and the forum is filled with people that use mesh.
Good Luck in your quest for the right cage for you. The Cham will be happy in either as long as you give them what they need
fluxlizard
Avid Member
So, when hot air rises out of a fish tank, fresh cooler air from outside the tank isn't pulled in and doesn't drop to the bottom coolest layer of air to replace it?
How is that possible?
And why do day geckos, anoles, iguanas, and other arboreal lizards from the same/similar habitats as chameleons do fine in fish tanks and then magically chameleons do not?
And if fresh air isn't pulled in, why do ground dwelling lizards like leopard geckos, fireskinks, etc not suffocate (co2 is heavier than oxygen after all, so it should build up and suffocate the animal if there is no air replacement) or suffer and decline from breathing stale air when kept in fish tanks?
This is neither here or there to this thread- but I had no problem with large fish tanks when I used glass for my chameleons... Some of the best looking, thriving and productive chameleons I have ever owned were in glass aquarium tanks the several years I used them...
I prefer mesh now because it is cheaper for larger and I prefer much larger enclosures now, and I like to keep everything outside in the summer.
The whole glass thing in any form is one big myth that was started with good intentions and repeated so often by those who never even tried glass that everyone believed it.
To the OP mesh is fine, glass is fine. It's just personal preference and you just have to make adjustments whichever way you go.
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Elizadolots
New Member
If your lights are off to one side, then even a horizontal fish tank can have good air flow. To me, the biggest reason to say "no fish tanks" is that chameleons like to climb and we like to watch them. Giving them plenty of vertical climbing space insures a happier environment for all.
From what I've been told, in England it can be difficult to keep humidity up. Because of that, glass can be advantageous.
From what I've been told, in England it can be difficult to keep humidity up. Because of that, glass can be advantageous.
lindawaz
New Member
Saw it in one of Chris's responses and for the life of me could not find it to quote it.
so now I will go on a mission and find it..... https://www.chameleonforums.com/everyone-who-knows-you-cant-keep-chams-glass-31937/
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fluxlizard
Avid Member
Which is another funny thing that is often repeated along with how cold England is. I've visited England and although it wasn't too long (a few days sightseeing london, stonehenge, etc) it was long enough to see it is very green- it is not nearly as dry as the western third of the US where people keep chams in screen enclosures all the time. And it isn't as cold in the winter as the upper half of the US where people use screen cages all the time as well either...
People hear stuff and repeat it and believe it. It is funny and at the same time maddening...
fluxlizard
Avid Member
That wasn't referring to you by the way Elizadolots- I was really thinking about the people in England believing it is more humid and warmer in most of the US so we can get away with screen cages while they must use glass. LOL
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Yeah- I just cited his article a couple of days ago to support glass.
We have different opinions on why glass was not successful before the new glass terrariums with the vents and doors.
Chris explains the ventilation which you repeated. My strong belief having lived through it is that back in the mid 90s, Ken Kalish and Ardi Abate took over as editors of the CIN newsletter and they had a very strong belief about the need for screen enclosures with unlimited ventilation. This was repeated over and over every newsletter at a time when the popularity of chameleons was growing dramatically and when the main source for dissemination of husbandry information was their newsletter. It was a great newsletter, but in some ways not too different from getting caresheets from only one breeder as care guidelines had to conform to the editor's views (and prior to my letting my subscription run out, most of the species breeding articles were actually written by the 2 editors with input from other breeders).
The newsletter was excellent stuff, but it pre-destined the widespread circulation of the strong belief that screen enclosures were mandatory.
So, my explanation as to why glass tanks were unsuccessful previous to the new front opening ventilated glass tanks is much simpler.
It has nothing to do with the new tanks vs the old aquarium tanks. It had nothing to do with the new improved ventilation system.
I used tanks successfully for several years, another well respected forum member who has some of the longest living chameleons on record has used them for many years longer than I did and still uses them today from what I gather.
The reason they weren't "successful" is because they were never used because most people insisting that glass was bad never tried glass. They were just repeating what they had read or been told and trusted it. Those who had used glass, were told they were unethical because chameleons *had* to have screen enclosures. Never mind how well the actual animals did- can't let the facts get in the way of what the chameleons needed.
So pretty soon people like me just stopped talking about it. Which is why I probably talk about it too much now. LOL
The funniest part to me might be why the unlimited ventilation theory came about in the first place. Chameleon breeding pioneer and chameleon behavior researcher Robert Bustard of the UK emphasized the need for plenty of ventilation in his early published articles. But then his definition of of plenty of ventilation when one actually reads his articles was much less than an all screen enclosure- it was a strip several inches wide along the top of large glass or plexiglass boxes which he used for keeping his chameleons indoors. I'm not positive that is where this all began, but I have thought about it sometimes and think it entirely possible that someone read that point about plenty of ventilation in one of his articles, passed it along to someone in the chameleon pet community early on, and it gets taken to the extreme with the original source forgotten...
Sorry so long- I'll try to stay away from glass vs screen for a while LOL
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fluxlizard said..."I used tanks successfully for several years"...I've been keeping chameleons and many other species of reptiles for over 20 years. I started off with glass aquariums and even some solid wood cages with glass doors and some ventilation in the top...switched to cages that had screen lids and doors and then as soon as the exoterra's came out switched to them and even back to aquariums for some of the chameleons. It was hard here to keep the humidity up in the cages with the screen doors without ruining my house and also to keep the cages warm enough that the chameleons didn't end up having to sit under the basking lights to keep warm.
All the C. chamaeleons that I had were raised and kept in aquariums and lived to be over 6 years old...back in the good old days when "nobody" could keep chameleons alive for long. My first bunch of veileds were kept in glass aquariums...they did well too...as did many other chameleons and lizards.
I also agree with what you said about the air flow in aquariums. IMHO there was no problem as long as the lights were set up right to create a chimney affect.
Just like the "tale" about failing to breed your female when she first became sexually mature still has not died, the idea that the only way to keep chameleons is in screen cages is hard to get past. BTW...I'm not saying that glass should be used in all instances...if you live in a hot climate without air conditioning, then they are not likely the best option.
All the C. chamaeleons that I had were raised and kept in aquariums and lived to be over 6 years old...back in the good old days when "nobody" could keep chameleons alive for long. My first bunch of veileds were kept in glass aquariums...they did well too...as did many other chameleons and lizards.
I also agree with what you said about the air flow in aquariums. IMHO there was no problem as long as the lights were set up right to create a chimney affect.
Just like the "tale" about failing to breed your female when she first became sexually mature still has not died, the idea that the only way to keep chameleons is in screen cages is hard to get past. BTW...I'm not saying that glass should be used in all instances...if you live in a hot climate without air conditioning, then they are not likely the best option.
JonRich
New Member
I wishhh i can get a vivarium in the size of 48" x 24" x 24" without paying a ton!!
I lovee themmm!! As long as you know what it takes to obtain the perameters you need (wattage of bulb, durations of having them on, misting etc) then it's really "set it and forget it"..
I have my older Cham in a 50" x 28" x 28" mesh cage, and holy hell it's hard to keep that thing humid enough for long (especially in the dry winter air).. I now mist with warm water almost 8-9 times a day 2-3 minutes per misting. PLEASEE MISTKING GET HERE FASTT, my spray finger is killing me!!
Only issue i find is the reflesting and "lack of barrier". I find my Cham trying to climb through the glass. I also find it hard to attatch the vines to the sides like a mesh cage, but i solve this with suction cups and zipties!
I lovee themmm!! As long as you know what it takes to obtain the perameters you need (wattage of bulb, durations of having them on, misting etc) then it's really "set it and forget it"..
I have my older Cham in a 50" x 28" x 28" mesh cage, and holy hell it's hard to keep that thing humid enough for long (especially in the dry winter air).. I now mist with warm water almost 8-9 times a day 2-3 minutes per misting. PLEASEE MISTKING GET HERE FASTT, my spray finger is killing me!!
Only issue i find is the reflesting and "lack of barrier". I find my Cham trying to climb through the glass. I also find it hard to attatch the vines to the sides like a mesh cage, but i solve this with suction cups and zipties!
Olimpia
Biologist & Ecologist
Yes, this is popular and fine. I have one cage which has a solid back, only, but I've made cages for other tropical reptiles that had the front and top screen but 3 solid sides. Or the front is glass and the back is solid but both sides and the top are screen. These all work fine for chameleons as well, and provide more than enough ventilation.
You will have to decide which one works best for you and your situation, but there are a few good options.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
I used to use glass also way back in the old Cin days. I used a cpl of terrariums for my females called Lizard Lounges. They were glass but had pre drilled holes for airflow. I kept my veiled female and panther female in them. They lived for several yrs in those and produced several clutches each. My problem with glass tanks is the build up of water in the base from the misting sessions and the constant cleaning it takes to keep glass tanks clean. Screen is much easier when it comes to maintenance. You never have to worry about cleaning and dropping and breaking a screen cage. You break one big terrarium and your losing 100's of dollars. I know from exp it sucks!
And like Flux stated you cant just set your glass terrarium outside so your cham can get real uvb. You still need a seperate screen cage for outside basking times.
And like Flux stated you cant just set your glass terrarium outside so your cham can get real uvb. You still need a seperate screen cage for outside basking times.
Tiger Rye
New Member
So confusing. I think I'm gonna build my own screen hybrid.
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.569734,-87.363812
coldbloodedAL
Avid Member
I got a viv that is 18x24x36 at what i considered to be a great price compared to what i have seen some selling for, i can pm you w/ the company.
I like glass better, but when it comes down to sizes, weight, and pricing you can't really beat a screen mesh cage. they are way more convenient.
Id put large chameleons in vision cages if I could afford a bunch of them but I don't think I have 5k to spend on housing.
Id put large chameleons in vision cages if I could afford a bunch of them but I don't think I have 5k to spend on housing.
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D
DavidBuchan
Guest
Well done Blendin, one post and a good long discussion. Any old box will do, as long as it has space, ventilation, humidity and a good range of temps. (don't try cardboard though because you'd need special stuff to stand up to the humidity 
)
It's nicer to be able to see the chameleon, so glass and mesh are preferred. If you use screen or mesh you'll probably want to put some plastic screen round a couple of sides to help keep humidity up anyway.......
Central heating and a maybe a small fan heater at night in winter means it's easy to prevent the night temps getting below 60F (16C)
A good uv tube and a basking bulb plus plenty of branches and plants to hide in and you're set...........
Onto calcium supplements, variety of feeders and gutloading..............
Welcome to the forum
Here's a picture of my not very famous 'Wardrarium' - https://www.chameleonforums.com/mem...-finished-setup-picture10631-big-viv-002.html
. Any old box will do, as long as it has space, ventilation, humidity and a good range of temps. (don't try cardboard though because you'd need special stuff to stand up to the humidity )It's nicer to be able to see the chameleon, so glass and mesh are preferred. If you use screen or mesh you'll probably want to put some plastic screen round a couple of sides to help keep humidity up anyway.......
Central heating and a maybe a small fan heater at night in winter means it's easy to prevent the night temps getting below 60F (16C)
A good uv tube and a basking bulb plus plenty of branches and plants to hide in and you're set...........
Onto calcium supplements, variety of feeders and gutloading..............
Welcome to the forum
Here's a picture of my not very famous 'Wardrarium' - https://www.chameleonforums.com/mem...-finished-setup-picture10631-big-viv-002.html
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