Veiled is falling

Anela

New Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, approx. 4, been with us for about 3 months.
  • Handling - Only when necessary - he's mean lol
  • Feeding - Dubias, varied amounts (until he turns away) depending on the size, was every other day, just started daily, gut-loading with greens, fruit, and veggies.
  • Supplements - Rep-Cal phosphorus-free calcium w/vit D3 ultrafine powder. Not liberally dusting, just letting them crawl around in the bowl he eats from so whatever they get on them from that.
  • Watering - We have a dripper that drops onto one of his branches, runs down it, and continues to drip down onto his plants. Mist with a spray bottle a couple times a day until everything in it is wet and dripping. He'll drink if I spray his mouth/head and he drinks from the dripper.
  • Fecal Description - Poop is brown, urine is white and partially orange, which I now know is dehydration from reading the forums (it was like that when we got him and I didn't know it wasn't normal). We haven't had him tested for parasites, but I don't know if his previous 2 owners did or not.
  • History - He was for sale on Facebook by a lady we know that used to own a reptile shop. Turns out she got him from a lady in Gold Canyon about 2-3 months before we bought him.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Cage came with him. It's a wooden hutch with a screen back and plexiglass front. It's 2 ft x 2 ft and about 4 ft tall.
  • Lighting - It had one of those curly UVB bulbs. He was having an eye issue and I read on the forums here that they can cause problems so switched over to a full-spectrum bulb I had for plants. His eye seems to have gotten better since I did that. Also have a regular 100 watt bulb for heat. I turn the lights on when we get up and off when I shut down the house for the night so he gets about 12 hours of light.
  • Temperature - We keep the house at 80 degrees and the inside of the cage is a couple degrees warmer than that, presumably from being enclosed on three sides.
  • Humidity - We haven't been measuring humidity. I know the air feels moister in the cage than out. There is a "waterfall" that I have to refill every day since it evaporates that quick.
  • Plants - There's a ficus that came with him in the enclosure. It was almost dead when we got him. I started watering it and it's now healthy and has grown almost a foot. He does eat the leaves every so often. I plan to get him a hibiscus as soon as they're in stock at the stores.
  • Placement - The cage is in the kitchen/dining room area between the arcadia door and a window. There are no vents near it and it's off to the side of the room so not high traffic. I can see it when I stand in the kitchen but we're not walking past it all the time. The top of the cage is probably 6-7 feel above floor level.
  • Location - Arizona, between Phx and Tucson

Current Problem - Since we've had him he's fallen several times, but seems to be falling more often lately. I do notice he's been a lot more active and seems to fall most often when he's going from branch to branch. Maybe they're not close enough together? He also tries to grab the crossbars on the door of his cage but the plexiglass prevents him from doing that and he'll slip on it and hang from just his hind feet. If we see him do that, we support him back up to the branch.

I got up the other morning and he was sitting on the edge of the pan I have under the plant to catch the runoff water. There have been several other times we hear rustling and stuff coming from his cage. We run in and he's either fallen or is in the process of falling. We either pick him up and put him back on his branches or support him back up onto the branch.

I read through quite a few of the posts regarding falling and I'm not certain whether he's doing it on purpose or not. I did read that seeing his reflection could stress him out and we plan to remove the plexiglass and replace it with screen.

His grip seems good. When we support him back up to a branch he grabs our fingers and it seems pretty tight. I've also caught him sleeping on the underside of the branches. I have to believe if his grip was failing he'd fall when he did that, but he holds on all night.

He almost fell twice today and I cannibalized a child gate and put in a "safety net" so he can't fall all the way to the bottom. There are fake vines in the cage that he can now reach from the safety net to climb back up.

I've attached pics.
DSCN0098.JPG DSCN0099.JPG
 
Lighting - It had one of those curly UVB bulbs. He was having an eye issue and I read on the forums here that they can cause problems so switched over to a full-spectrum bulb I had for plants.

You still need some sort of UVB bulb, the full spectrum bulb isn't giving him UVB.
 
Would either of these work?



Zoo Med Mini Compact Fluorescent 10.0 Bulb 13 watt
  • $9.99 each
Size: 13 watts

The new ReptiSun® Compact Fluorescent lamps use a special UVB transmitting quartz glass for maximum UVB penetration. Cool burning compact fluorescent bulbs screw into standard threaded sockets, eliminating the need for a separate ballast


Zoo Med Mini Compact Fluorescent 5.0 Bulb 13 watt

  • $8.99 each
Size: 13 watts

The ReptiSun® Mini Compact Fluorescent lamps use a special UVB transmitting quartz glass for maximum UVB. Cool burning mini compact fluorescent bulbs screw into standard threaded sockets, eliminating the need for a separate ballast.
 
Ordered on eBay.

I live about 40 miles from the nearest pet supply and couldn't guarantee they'd have it. =(
 
I understand that the screen it in the back but I would pull it away from the wall for better air circulation. That's not the reason he is falling just an observation. If you are able to sort out his health issues which seems like it might be stages of mbd. Real the article that's posted on the front page of the site. You can't miss it. Also you should be dusting without d3 everyday and with d3 every two weeks.

If you can I would bust out that plexiglass in the front and install a screen.

Can you post some close ups of the veiled please?
 
I understand that the screen it in the back but I would pull it away from the wall for better air circulation. That's not the reason he is falling just an observation. If you are able to sort out his health issues which seems like it might be stages of mbd. Real the article that's posted on the front page of the site. You can't miss it. Also you should be dusting without d3 everyday and with d3 every two weeks.

If you can I would bust out that plexiglass in the front and install a screen.

Can you post some close ups of the veiled please?


I will pull the cage further from the wall.

I read the article you suggested. We're new with veiled. We had a panther about 18 years ago and we've had various and sundry reptiles in between then and now (including a Savannah monitor I nursed back to health). We'd never even heard of mbd. It doesn't seem to me like he has the symptoms listed except for falling, but then again what do I know? I've never had a veiled before.

I read the care sheet that Melissa pointed me to and saw about the D3. I've ordered some without. I just won't dust until it arrives, which will be the beginning of the week.

We plan to bust out the plexiglass and replace with screen. As soon as I told my husband about him stressing over his reflection and the need for airflow we made that decision. It's the lady that owned the reptile shop that installed the plexiglass. I don't know what she was thinking.

If there's other angles for pics you'd like to see, let me know. He's not the most cooperative but since he cruises around I can catch him from pretty much any angle at some point in the day.
 
I will pull the cage further from the wall.

I read the article you suggested. We're new with veiled. We had a panther about 18 years ago and we've had various and sundry reptiles in between then and now (including a Savannah monitor I nursed back to health). We'd never even heard of mbd. It doesn't seem to me like he has the symptoms listed except for falling, but then again what do I know? I've never had a veiled before.

I read the care sheet that Melissa pointed me to and saw about the D3. I've ordered some without. I just won't dust until it arrives, which will be the beginning of the week.

We plan to bust out the plexiglass and replace with screen. As soon as I told my husband about him stressing over his reflection and the need for airflow we made that decision. It's the lady that owned the reptile shop that installed the plexiglass. I don't know what she was thinking.

If there's other angles for pics you'd like to see, let me know. He's not the most cooperative but since he cruises around I can catch him from pretty much any angle at some point in the day.
It's great to hear that you are on top of things, make sure to get that UVB 5.0 as soon as possible.
Out of curiosity, when he is walking around is he perched up or dragging his belly?
 
The UVB light will be delivered by Wednesday, possibly before. I'll install it the second it gets here.

As for walking around, he's up on his legs. When he stops and intends to stay put he'll lay down on the branch but as soon as he starts moving he stands back up. When we get too close for his comfort he raises up high, hisses, puffs up, sometimes even lunges at us. We try not to upset him like that and so keep our distance until it's necessary.

Honestly, he seems perfectly healthy except for the falling thing. That's why it's got us so stumped.

Well, maybe not perfectly. He is definitely dehydrated by the look of his urine, but I identified that problem a few weeks ago and have been working on it. It used to be about 75% orange and now it's down to about 45%-50% orange. That's not something I can fix overnight, obviously, but we are making great progress there. He hates the shower or I'd put him in it more often. Instead, I've come to an agreement with him that he'll let me squirt his closed mouth with water and then he'll drink what I've put there. When he's done, he simply walks away.
 
The UVB light will be delivered by Wednesday, possibly before. I'll install it the second it gets here.

As for walking around, he's up on his legs. When he stops and intends to stay put he'll lay down on the branch but as soon as he starts moving he stands back up. When we get too close for his comfort he raises up high, hisses, puffs up, sometimes even lunges at us. We try not to upset him like that and so keep our distance until it's necessary.

Honestly, he seems perfectly healthy except for the falling thing. That's why it's got us so stumped.

Well, maybe not perfectly. He is definitely dehydrated by the look of his urine, but I identified that problem a few weeks ago and have been working on it. It used to be about 75% orange and now it's down to about 45%-50% orange. That's not something I can fix overnight, obviously, but we are making great progress there. He hates the shower or I'd put him in it more often. Instead, I've come to an agreement with him that he'll let me squirt his closed mouth with water and then he'll drink what I've put there. When he's done, he simply walks away.
It's really hard to get there urate pure white, with all mine they always seem to have a little yellow in it, which is ok.
You can try to get him use to you by holding a superworm or a hornworm in the palm of your hand near him and try to start hand feeding. It won't happen over night but try it once a day, they usually will come around but not always. I have a female that I rescued and was angry at everything and everyone, after a couple months she now will walk out onto me, shes still nervous but it's something.
 
It's really hard to get there urate pure white, with all mine they always seem to have a little yellow in it, which is ok.
You can try to get him use to you by holding a superworm or a hornworm in the palm of your hand near him and try to start hand feeding. It won't happen over night but try it once a day, they usually will come around but not always. I have a female that I rescued and was angry at everything and everyone, after a couple months she now will walk out onto me, shes still nervous but it's something.

That's a really comforting thing to know. Thank you. I read some blogs and I think some forum posts and they terrified me of the implications of having anything but pure white. You know - the more of it that's discolored the more severe the dehydration is and he could die. He probably thought he was going to drown with how much I sprayed him until the percentage came down some. lol That is how we came to our agreement though, so I guess it wasn't all bad. =)

If he sees that I have the food bowl, he comes racing to the front of the cage to eat. My fingers are only inches from him and it doesn't bother him at all. When I spray his mouth, I'm holding the spray bottle about an inch from him and he doesn't care. In fact, if you can get him onto you, he's fine with it and he calms right down. It's coming close to him in his cage or trying to pick him up that sets him off. He lunges for your hand every time you reach for him to pick him up. He has some days when he attacks the plexiglass. I have to climb up a ladder to replenish the water in the dripper and there's mornings that he's body and face slamming the plexiglass the whole time, hissing like crazy. Other mornings he could care less.
 
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