The Vitamin A Mystery in Chameleons Unleashed…Petr Necas…

[kinyonga]

“The answer lies in three types of insects:

1. praying mantises,
2. wasps, and
3. flies. “

https://www.chameleons.info/l/the-vitamin-a-mystery-in-chameleons-unleashed/

 

[LizardLurkin]

Interesting, I've been reading more of Petr's articles.
I have seen people feed chameleons pinkies, but never saw it proposed by anyone with legitimate means.
I am curious about the supplement. Does that mean reptivite and Repashy Calcium plus LoD don't cut it?

 

[kinyonga]

“However, since they cannot efficiently convert carotenoids into vitamin A”…I’d still like to see studies on this for chameleon species that are known to eat vegetation, leaves, flowers, fruits, etc.

If the supplement has prEformed vitamin A (from meat sources, mainly), the chameleons should be able to use it. If the supplement contains prOformed sources of vitamin A…that’s where the problem lies….it has to be converted from things like carotenes or carotenoids…and it’s said that chameleons can not convert it well enough or not ata ll.

 

[LizardLurkin]

Very interesting; I wish I understood the science enough to add anything. It just makes me want to ask more questions such as: how is it known other supplements boast having the prEformed vitamin A, but don't actually contain it?
And then, if you do gutload your feeders with meat on a bi-weekly basis, is it white or red meat? Or does that not make a difference? One thing I know for sure, they'd be eating good lol

 

[kinyonga]

I’m not a scientist and can only speak from what I’ve learned over the years…
Chicken, pork, etc all have vitamin A in them in the preformed form.
Dairy and eggs also have prEformed vitamin A in. With meats, I would worry about there being too much protein in it…but I’m not sure how much is too much.

If the supplements say they have retinol acetate or retinol palmitate…then it’s preformed…if they just say vitamin A that’s not enough information…you don’t know if it’s preformed they are using or prOformed. If it say carotene’s or carotenoids, then it’s prOformed and the chameleon would have to convert it…and we already talked about that.

 

[nightanole]

Very interesting; I wish I understood the science enough to add anything. It just makes me want to ask more questions such as: how is it known other supplements boast having the prEformed vitamin A, but don't actually contain it?
And then, if you do gutload your feeders with meat on a bi-weekly basis, is it white or red meat? Or does that not make a difference? One thing I know for sure, they'd be eating good lol

There is an ingredient list so you just go through and ask yourself "what is retinol acetate". Other suppliers list the raw and what it is supplying (retinol acetate vit A).
The issue of feeding "meat" to lizards that mostly eat insects, is their organs cant process it well. Take a beardy. Feed it pinkies and salad, and it will last 8 years. Feed same animal insects and salad, and it will live 12 years.
You want to give a rat cancer, just feed it enough whey and meat and you will have some right quick.

As for gut loading. Animals are like legos, you cant boost a feeders vitamin properties. once you have enough red blocks, you dont get a feeder with extra red blocks no matter what you feed it, and if you dont have enough yellow blocks you get less feeder, not a feeder with less yellow blocks. If you take two feeders, fed completely different guy loads, have them with empty stomachs, grind them up and analize, they will have the exact same values.

Gut load is another story, as its basically just undigested chow, and gut load stuffing of feeder is 10%(meal worms) up to 40%(dubia) by weight. So if you are feeding your feeders alot of animal meat, then its just a feeder with undigested animal meat inside.

 

[LizardLurkin]

That's interesting. I have heard about chams taking down small birds and the like, but just because they can doesn't mean it's necessarily worth replicating in captivity. At least, not while there are a lot of factors to consider.