Supplement scheduling

Mike Fisher

Established Member
Just sharing some thoughts here about supplements, hopefully there is info in here that can help someone. If anyone wants to share links to relevant information regarding the material, go for it!

There are a lot of questions here regarding the brand and frequency of supplementation, rightfully so. You almost need to be a rocket scientist to figure it all out.

We're learning more every day regarding a chameleons nutritional needs, mostly by trial and error. What works for one keeper and species may fail miserably for another because they are using differing brands of supplements/different lighting etc.

Generally there is a consensus among experienced keepers to use a pure calcium powder at most feedings, a phosphorous free calcium D3 powder twice a month and a vitamin powder twice a month containing a pro-formed beta carotene source of vitamin A.

Generally excellent advice, but using what brand(s) of supplements? For instance, if a person was using Sticky Tongue Farms Minerall Indoor formula that comes with D3, they might be fine to use it every day because the amount of D3 in there is only 4,400IU/kg. But if they were using Rep-Cal with D3, that contains 400,000IU/kg.....Twice a month might be too much for some species and could even overdose a montane species that won't tolerate such a high dose all in one feeding.

Then as keepers, we come up with generalizations, such as, "Montane species won't tolerate dietary D3". That's after they get edema because we gave them one feeding that contained all the D3 they needed for two months because we didn't either look at the label, or failed to understand it.

Realize that I chose those two supplements because they are both at the extreme ranges.

Lately I've been experimenting with low dose/high frequency scheduling. I believe it does not stress the liver or kidneys as much as high dosing at a lower frequency. Yes, it is more frequent, but the dosing is very low so when I share my supplementation schedule, even the most experienced keeper says, "You are going to overdose your chameleon! I'm surprised they all haven't died from edema!" They'll say this without knowing how much D3 or vitamin A I am using per feeding, which is extremely low. I am able to do this because I formulate and mill my own supplements so I know what is in them.

There are a few keepers who advise against any supplements whatsoever relying solely on a varied diet of gutloaded insects, good lighting and natural sunshine.

That can work if you can do it right, however the one thing I'd like to point out is that the majority of feeders available have a horrible calcium/phosphorus ratio. If this is not corrected for in some way, there will be an imbalance which is the root cause of MBD. At the very least, I believe in supplementing with a pure calcium carbonate on those feeders that typically have a lopsided calcium/phosphorus ratio.

My bottom line here...Read and understand the label. Know the calcium/phosphorus ratio of your feeders so you'll know when it is appropriate to dust calcium on them. Your chameleon will thank you.:)
 
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Very informative post. I think it is important for these types of threads given that there is so much generalized feedback given to members. I have stuck to dusting plain calcium (sticky tongues Minerall outdoor) on all feeders with a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio. I don't just dust daily or every other day etc. I dust what needs dusting. I also tend to think keepers are not looking in to what the multivitamins they are using contain, and given they are all so different it is important to understand you needs and choose the proper one accordingly.

For me I wanted a D3 free multivitamin with pro-formed vit A so I go with Rep-Cal Herptivite. Personally I do not dust with D3 very often given that my chameleons get plenty of outside time with real sun. When I do use D3 I prefer sticky tongues Minerall indoor given the low level. I also have a vit A powder that has pre-formed vit A (repashy vitamin A plus) if I choose to give it to my boys.

I do also keep 8+ feeder types, however each of my chameleons has their favorite 3-4 and really eat mainly those. So I also try to vary my gutload on a weekly basis. I rotate the greens, veggies, fruits and dry ingredients weekly to try to provide a variety of nutrients.

Nice discussion topic.
 
Good topic and a good post.


Personally I place plain calcium on the feeders 5 days a week. One day a week I give one feeder item with Repashy MedCal (Calcium and medium D3) and one day I feed a few feeder items with Herptivite.

I also feed my insects fresh carrots and kale. Can't overstate the value of feeding your feeder insects.

Also, no chameleon likes just one or two types of feeders. Variety is key to keeping any chameleon long term.
 
There is no substitute for the sun. Please owners, get them outside whenever at all possible. Especially any breeding females. I sit out on my back deck constantly with them. Extremely beneficial to them, and very relaxing for you. Nothing against supplements, i use them also. But, they need outdoors, outdoors, outdoors. Even in the shade has D3! Listen to Mike and Piglett, but remember OUTDOORS!
 
There is no substitute for the sun. Please owners, get them outside whenever at all possible. Especially any breeding females. I sit out on my back deck constantly with them. Extremely beneficial to them, and very relaxing for you. Nothing against supplements, i use them also. But, they need outdoors, outdoors, outdoors. Even in the shade has D3! Listen to Mike and Piglett, but remember OUTDOORS!

But also remember that depending on where you live and the species you keep, outdoors can be inhospitable for much of the year. If you live in the desert and keep montanes for instance. Sure, do it if you can, but the majority of keepers will not be able to solely rely on the sun to provide D3 for their chameleons. Otherwise there would not be so many different supplement powders to confuse us. :p
 
Otherwise there would not be so many different supplement powders to confuse us. :p
Not everything sold needs to be purchased. (i.e. bottled water, diesel gas for your unleaded car, vitamin d for people too lazy to leave their couch and go outside,etc...) just saying. P.S. if you don't know not to take your jax outside in AZ, then you probably shouldn't own one. Am I right? My info was generally speaking, of course. I would expect even the newest of noobies to know their temp and rh requirements. Every year i look up my local monthly temp, rainfall, and humidity averages, to know when it is outdoor time. Sorry if this offends. But natuaral sunlight is better than anything store bought 100 out of 100 times. If not taking proper care of something who can't speak and tell you what it needs, then you shouldn't take responsibility for it's well being.
 
But natuaral sunlight is better than anything store bought 100 out of 100 times. If not taking proper care of something who can't speak and tell you what it needs, then you shouldn't take responsibility for it's well being.

Natural sunlight is best, nobody is debating that. For the majority of species and keepers that is a luxury for much of the year. Then the logistics come into play, moving large colonies outdoors in the morning, trying to bring them all back in before the heat of the day, cold at night etc.

That's where the whole point of this thread is focused on making up for that with proper dosing/scheduling with supplements.

Humans have to do the same thing to stay healthy if they are not exposed to sunlight often enough. In my local area, (Pacific Northwest) people have to take rather large doses of dietary D3 for more than half the year. We rarely see the sun especially in winter. We may only have a handful of days in the winter where we see the sun. Depending on the weather pattern here, summer season can have dense cloud cover that never burns off and highs in the 60's to low 70's for much of the season. Yes, we wear jackets in July sometimes. But if the sun is out, we can get over 100F. So you could put your chameleons out in the cool morning and have them roasted by afternoon if the clouds burn off.

Recreating their natural environment indoors as best we can and using supplements can be the healthier option for many of us.;)
 
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