Stressed Chameleon

[Devin101829]

Help please, i’m a new owner of a Veild chameleon and i know this enclosure is less than ideal. i’m working on getting a 2’x2’x4’ enclosure this weekend with the long UV light and all live plants. Pascal is Roughly 5 months old. she eats great. her diet consists of Dubia roaches. Meal worms, Nutri Grubs, and the wax worms for treat bugs. she gets her supplements as needed. she loves to eat and i’ve seen her drink plenty of times. unfortunately i can’t really handle her. she panics and runs. her cage stays roughly at 80-85 degrees F during the day and get to around 70-75 at night. the part that scares me is more recently i’ve been finding her towards the bottom of her cage like this. her urate has no signs of discoloration. i don’t know if she does this while shedding or what. this is new behavior and i’m just concerned. Any advice would be appreciated. again. i know this is less than ideal for a home but i’m working on a major upgrade.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome. Can you post some clear pics of her please. How much has she been eating and how often? What supplements have you been using and what is the schedule? How long have you had her/how long has she been in this type of set up (mainly with the coil uvb)?

 

[Devin101829]

.

 

[Devin101829]

these were as of a week or 2 ago.

 

[Devin101829]

Hi and welcome. Can you post some clear pics of her please. How much has she been eating and how often? What supplements have you been using and what is the schedule? How long have you had her/how long has she been in this type of set up (mainly with the coil uvb)?

so i just just put her to sleep. so i’ll get some pictures to you Asap when i get up. i’ve had her for about 1 and a half months. she’s unfortunately had the coil type uvb since i got her. i did not know how crap it is until recently. but after doing a lot of research i realized how wrong i’m going about this. i feel awful about not doing a thorough amount of research before hand. i just hope it’s not to late to give the the best. but i give her calcium daily. she was eating 2 times a day for the last month. i just switched her to once a day. (a healthy amount of insects though 8-10) and she gets bee pollen 3-4 times a week. and the Reptivite vitamins with d3 once every 2 weeks.

 

[MissSkittles]

so i just just put her to sleep. so i’ll get some pictures to you Asap when i get up. i’ve had her for about 1 and a half months. she’s unfortunately had the coil type uvb since i got her. i did not know how crap it is until recently. but after doing a lot of research i realized how wrong i’m going about this. i feel awful about not doing a thorough amount of research before hand. i just hope it’s not to late to give the the best. but i give her calcium daily. she was eating 2 times a day for the last month. i just switched her to once a day. (a healthy amount of insects though 8-10) and she gets bee pollen 3-4 times a week. and the Reptivite vitamins with d3 once every 2 weeks.

It’s very hard to know what is correct when there’s so much old and incorrect info out there on keeping chameleons. No judgement here…too many of us have had very similar starts.
First, your girl sitting on the floor or low could be from any number of causes. However, with our girls we always suspect egg laying first. Veileds mature very quickly and she is old enough to produce and lay eggs. Has she developed any colors in her resting/non stressed state? Teals, orange or mustard yellow or some just have dark patterns. Has she been unusually active in recent weeks - almost constantly roaming all over her enclosure? Both of these things are signs that she is receptive for mating and a precursor for producing/laying eggs. Have you seen her or signs that she’s been trying or digging anywhere?
Now let’s move to some general husbandry. Have you just started giving her the ReptiVite with D3 once every other week and Calcium without D3 every feeding? If so, what was she getting before? Have you seen recent poops? Is she holding her head up (star gazing)? Any sounds from her like popping, wheezing, etc? What has her humidity been? What’s in the bowls? Has she ever been tested for parasites? Where did you get her from?
If you haven’t already found https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-basics/ then do check it out. I need to get some zzz’s. If no one else pitches in and helps, I’ll probably be back in too few hours (insomnia sucks).

 

[Devin101829]

It’s very hard to know what is correct when there’s so much old and incorrect info out there on keeping chameleons. No judgement here…too many of us have had very similar starts.
First, your girl sitting on the floor or low could be from any number of causes. However, with our girls we always suspect egg laying first. Veileds mature very quickly and she is old enough to produce and lay eggs. Has she developed any colors in her resting/non stressed state? Teals, orange or mustard yellow or some just have dark patterns. Has she been unusually active in recent weeks - almost constantly roaming all over her enclosure? Both of these things are signs that she is receptive for mating and a precursor for producing/laying eggs. Have you seen her or signs that she’s been trying or digging anywhere?
Now let’s move to some general husbandry. Have you just started giving her the ReptiVite with D3 once every other week and Calcium without D3 every feeding? If so, what was she getting before? Have you seen recent poops? Is she holding her head up (star gazing)? Any sounds from her like popping, wheezing, etc? What has her humidity been? What’s in the bowls? Has she ever been tested for parasites? Where did you get her from?
If you haven’t already found https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-basics/ then do check it out. I need to get some zzz’s. If no one else pitches in and helps, I’ll probably be back in too few hours (insomnia sucks

so i haven’t seen any dig spots or anything. her usual colors are a mild green. not to bright and not really dark. unfortunately i do work 12 hours a day so i never really witness a poop. i just examine the urate (which has been a nice white) but yes this past weekend i was puzzled at her unusual activity. i was assuming it was because she was shedding and just trying to get it off. i’ve never seen her on the floor. but just like 6-12 inches away from it. as far as her supplements. yes she gets the calcium without d3 daily. be pollen 3-4 times a week mixed with the calcium. and Vitamins with d3 every other week. and no. she’s never been tested for parasites. i’ve never really seen any signs to signal a test. this would really be the first one. i’m super carful where i get my insects from. her cage gets sprayed with water in the morning and evening. (i have recently bought a fogger but i think she’s scared of it) the bowls are just to catch the water and i empty and rinse them out daily. and i got her from a reptile show from a breeder. he seemed like a good guy. he knew a lot and a lot of people were at his stand .

 

[MissSkittles]

so i haven’t seen any dig spots or anything. her usual colors are a mild green. not to bright and not really dark. unfortunately i do work 12 hours a day so i never really witness a poop. i just examine the urate (which has been a nice white) but yes this past weekend i was puzzled at her unusual activity. i was assuming it was because she was shedding and just trying to get it off. i’ve never seen her on the floor. but just like 6-12 inches away from it. as far as her supplements. yes she gets the calcium without d3 daily. be pollen 3-4 times a week mixed with the calcium. and Vitamins with d3 every other week. and no. she’s never been tested for parasites. i’ve never really seen any signs to signal a test. this would really be the first one. i’m super carful where i get my insects from. her cage gets sprayed with water in the morning and evening. (i have recently bought a fogger but i think she’s scared of it) the bowls are just to catch the water and i empty and rinse them out daily. and i got her from a reptile show from a breeder. he seemed like a good guy. he knew a lot and a lot of people were at his stand .

Ok, so she may not have yet reached egg production and laying age, which is very good. It gives time to get everything as perfect as possible so that when she does reach that, she is less likely to have laying problems. However, that still leaves the question of what is wrong for her to be sitting at the bottom of the enclosure. In nature and by their nature, chameleons don’t often like to come down to the ground as there’s more danger for them, so this is a sign that she isn’t feeling well at all. Usually the only different movements they make while shedding are rubbing against things and stretching to help loosen the shed skin. I’m inclined to think that she isn’t feeling well because she’s been lacking proper uvb light and maybe even the bee pollen, but really the cause could be anything. Yes, I did say bee pollen. Although anecdotal, it has caused edema and other issues when given straight to chameleons and specifically veileds. Instead, add the bee pollen to what you are giving your feeder insects who will them become healthier and more nutritious. Until your uvb light arrives, try to take her outside in some sunshine and fresh air for a short time. Maybe sit her on a small plant that you can then take outside. If you have an area of dappled sunlight, you can sit there with her for some time. If only direct sunlight, I’d limit the time to about 15 minutes so that she won’t overheat. Also, never ever leave her alone outside. They are super fast when they want to be and predators can be even faster. See if that helps her feel a bit better. I do always recommend having wellness vet visits and fecals done. Parasites are more common than we know and even chameleons from the very best breeders can get them.
I didn’t give you the whole husbandry review, so I do want you to review your care by the web site link I gave you. We can do a full review if you like…just say so. I think at times people get scared away by having so many questions thrown at them right away.
Back to reproduction. The whole egg laying thing greatly shortens the lives of our ladies. Adding to that is the more they eat, the more eggs they produce and the more eggs there are, the greater the risk for egg binding and other problems. There are ways to try and reduce egg production though and for most, it works well. First, lower basking temp to 80 and no higher. This will help to slow metabolism just a bit. Then we limit how much we feed our girls. Yours is at the age where this is hard to do. We want to make sure she gets enough nutrition to fully grow, but still need to be mindful of egg production. I’m going to say continue to feed her 7-8 feeders daily and maybe in about a month, cut back to 5-6. If she starts to develop some colors, switch her to every other day feeding. The goal is for once she is fully grown to feed her 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week. Usually I think it’s best to start this after she’s laid her first clutch or has reached about 7-8 months old. You also need to start getting a lay bin ready. It saves so much stress for both you and your girl to just make a lay bin and keep it as a permanent part of her enclosure. I use big bins (my girls showed a preference) with some tiny holes drilled in the bottom for drainage and washed play sand of about 6” deep. I try to give at least a couple of sturdy ways in/out. Some chams will have their special poo spots. If you look and find your girls, make sure to place the bin away from it.
I should have warned you that I talk a lot. Lol I’ll shut up for now.

 

[Devin101829]

Ok, so she may not have yet reached egg production and laying age, which is very good. It gives time to get everything as perfect as possible so that when she does reach that, she is less likely to have laying problems. However, that still leaves the question of what is wrong for her to be sitting at the bottom of the enclosure. In nature and by their nature, chameleons don’t often like to come down to the ground as there’s more danger for them, so this is a sign that she isn’t feeling well at all. Usually the only different movements they make while shedding are rubbing against things and stretching to help loosen the shed skin. I’m inclined to think that she isn’t feeling well because she’s been lacking proper uvb light and maybe even the bee pollen, but really the cause could be anything. Yes, I did say bee pollen. Although anecdotal, it has caused edema and other issues when given straight to chameleons and specifically veileds. Instead, add the bee pollen to what you are giving your feeder insects who will them become healthier and more nutritious. Until your uvb light arrives, try to take her outside in some sunshine and fresh air for a short time. Maybe sit her on a small plant that you can then take outside. If you have an area of dappled sunlight, you can sit there with her for some time. If only direct sunlight, I’d limit the time to about 15 minutes so that she won’t overheat. Also, never ever leave her alone outside. They are super fast when they want to be and predators can be even faster. See if that helps her feel a bit better. I do always recommend having wellness vet visits and fecals done. Parasites are more common than we know and even chameleons from the very best breeders can get them.
I didn’t give you the whole husbandry review, so I do want you to review your care by the web site link I gave you. We can do a full review if you like…just say so. I think at times people get scared away by having so many questions thrown at them right away.
Back to reproduction. The whole egg laying thing greatly shortens the lives of our ladies. Adding to that is the more they eat, the more eggs they produce and the more eggs there are, the greater the risk for egg binding and other problems. There are ways to try and reduce egg production though and for most, it works well. First, lower basking temp to 80 and no higher. This will help to slow metabolism just a bit. Then we limit how much we feed our girls. Yours is at the age where this is hard to do. We want to make sure she gets enough nutrition to fully grow, but still need to be mindful of egg production. I’m going to say continue to feed her 7-8 feeders daily and maybe in about a month, cut back to 5-6. If she starts to develop some colors, switch her to every other day feeding. The goal is for once she is fully grown to feed her 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week. Usually I think it’s best to start this after she’s laid her first clutch or has reached about 7-8 months old. You also need to start getting a lay bin ready. It saves so much stress for both you and your girl to just make a lay bin and keep it as a permanent part of her enclosure. I use big bins (my girls showed a preference) with some tiny holes drilled in the bottom for drainage and washed play sand of about 6” deep. I try to give at least a couple of sturdy ways in/out. Some chams will have their special poo spots. If you look and find your girls, make sure to place the bin away from it.
I should have warned you that I talk a lot. Lol I’ll shut up for now.

It is not problem at all that you talk alot. i’m thankful for allllll the information you given me. i’ve been restlessly researching and reading to give baby pascal the perfect home. so getting accurate, recent information is awesome! i’m gonna get that uvb fixed today! also just her new 24x24x48 will be here this week and also gonna be live plant shopping with my significant other this friday with reptile friendly soil. i’m insurmountably grateful to have had you helped me ! as far as the handling i’m trying to work on a system to get her to like me. i’ve had very few days where she doesn’t mind my hand in her cage to put food in her cup. 95% of the time her colors get really sharp and dark she panics i’m learning about a slow system where she learns my hand means food, but also not to rush anything. i’m hoping it’s just the uv issue. . she’s ALWAYS ready to eat. i mean like, i’ve never seen a chameleon practically RUN to the food . (i swear i’m not starving her, she’s just a little fatty) also i’ll cut the bee pollen out and see if anything changes. i’ve seen no red or black spots on her to indicate external parasites. and her urate looks good and her poop has a good oval shape to it and is brownish black and doesn’t stink. i’ll post some pictures of her new home once i get it all set up! Thank you again for all the information!!

 

[Gloriawood]

It is not problem at all that you talk alot. i’m thankful for allllll the information you given me. i’ve been restlessly researching and reading to give baby pascal the perfect home. so getting accurate, recent information is awesome! i’m gonna get that uvb fixed today! also just her new 24x24x48 will be here this week and also gonna be live plant shopping with my significant other this friday with reptile friendly soil. i’m insurmountably grateful to have had you helped me ! as far as the handling i’m trying to work on a system to get her to like me. i’ve had very few days where she doesn’t mind my hand in her cage to put food in her cup. 95% of the time her colors get really sharp and dark she panics i’m learning about a slow system where she learns my hand means food, but also not to rush anything. i’m hoping it’s just the uv issue. . she’s ALWAYS ready to eat. i mean like, i’ve never seen a chameleon practically RUN to the food . (i swear i’m not starving her, she’s just a little fatty) also i’ll cut the bee pollen out and see if anything changes. i’ve seen no red or black spots on her to indicate external parasites. and her urate looks good and her poop has a good oval shape to it and is brownish black and doesn’t stink. i’ll post some pictures of her new home once i get it all set up! Thank you again for all the information!!

It took my guy a bit to get used to me. Feeding him with a cup that I hold in my hand helped a lot. I believe there is a thread on here about building trust with them. Just be patient and it will happen they are grumpy by nature so don’t expect her to be cuddly

 

[elizaann2]

I just wanted to say hello and welcome! When I first joined this forum I had the same set up as you. I also have a female veiled. I followed the advice given here and through the Chameleon Academy. I've now had my girl for a little over a year, I'm hoping to have her for many many more. If I didn't follow the advice there is no question she would have MBD and probably have passed away by now.

 

[MissSkittles]

Here’s the blog about building trust. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/ Do keep in mind that usually veileds are not friendly and happy to be held or bothered. Generally when a chameleon (especially veiled) is friendly and willingly comes to its human to be held, we look for what is wrong that it is trying to escape its enclosure. Approach very slowly and from just below or at their foot level and don’t make direct eye contact. She may hiss and lunge or run away. Stay calm and confident. I usually try to give little chin strokes every time I open their enclosure and will hold at least once a week or so just for a minute or two to reinforce that I’m not a threat.
Veileds are eating machines and I don’t think they have a stop button. They’re hard wired to be opportunistic eaters. When I first started and before I learned better, I was feeding my girl like dozens of crickets every day! Thankfully I found the forum and got her husbandry fixed just in time.

 

[dinomom]

Here’s the blog about building trust. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/ Do keep in mind that usually veileds are not friendly and happy to be held or bothered. Generally when a chameleon (especially veiled) is friendly and willingly comes to its human to be held, we look for what is wrong that it is trying to escape its enclosure. Approach very slowly and from just below or at their foot level and don’t make direct eye contact. She may hiss and lunge or run away. Stay calm and confident. I usually try to give little chin strokes every time I open their enclosure and will hold at least once a week or so just for a minute or two to reinforce that I’m not a threat.
Veileds are eating machines and I don’t think they have a stop button. They’re hard wired to be opportunistic eaters. When I first started and before I learned better, I was feeding my girl like dozens of crickets every day! Thankfully I found the forum and got her husbandry fixed just in time.

To add one thing to this, to my veiled the ultimate reinforcer is outside ( sun) time. He will huff and puff and then slowly climb on with encouragement of the other hand behind him since he has learned that is where he is headed.

 

[ChamelaChameleon]

To add one thing to this, to my veiled the ultimate reinforcer is outside ( sun) time. He will huff and puff and then slowly climb on with encouragement of the other hand behind him since he has learned that is where he is headed.

Same for me. Huffing, puffing, whining until we are outside. Then he turns into Dora the Explorer.

 

[ChamelaChameleon]

Who said Chamelon's can't change there colors? His true color is explorer!

 

[dinomom]

Same for me. Huffing, puffing, whining until we are outside. Then he turns into Dora the Explorer.

LOL I think all the bravado is cute. I do NOT want to go on your hand, I will NOT go happily, but if it's the only way ok fine I will do it.