some last min questions before I get my baby.

[warpdrive]

hi everyone,

so I just ordered my fist panther chameleon.
it will be a 9 1/2 week old ambilobe male.
I'll be getting it on thursday morning...plenty of pics will be posted, don't worrie.

well I got the cage (24"x12"x24"), all the lights and stuff finaly yesterday.
broke the basking bulb trying to get the temps correct...lol
so I'm using a standard house bulb for heating, a 24" reptisun 5.0 for UVB.

the ficus plant I ordered seems to be lost in the mail, so I went to the only place I can get plants this time of year and got an umbrella type plant. it's a bit too tall for my setup, but should make a great plant for the adult cage I'll get in 4 to 5 months.
when I do get the ficus, I hope there will be enough room in the cage as the canopy of the umbrella tree takes up the whole top third of the cage (might have to trim back a little).
smaller plants like pothos might be added in a month once they become available here in New York.

plenty of walk ways were created using fake vines securly fastend around the plant.

temps in the basking area is 92F-96F, depending if I have my window opened...is that good for a two month old baby panther?
I was told that 90F - 95F is good for babys, while 95F-100F is good for adults.
the rest of the cage has lower temps, reaching as low as 76F on the bottom furthist away from the basking bulb.


Humidity is on the low side this time of year. about 20% in my room. 30% when the cage is fully dry. 52% after I mist.
I did not set up my dripper yet, as I'm hopful that I might get the ficus on wedsday or thursday if it's not lost in the mail.

I will be feeding fruitflys and houseflys for the first month, moving onto crickets and other treats as it gets bigger.

in the care sheets I was given it says I should dust 6 times a week for this baby panther. 2x a week with D3...this seems like alot even for a baby that will never go outside.
what do you guys/gals think?

anyway, I'll be posting a pic shortly so you can view my setup.
thanks in advance for any tips or advice.

Harry

pic of my cage setup
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/3384682410_7a9e9ef50c_b.jpg

 

[kinyonga]

I don't keep baby panthers basking temperatures higher than the low 80s as a rule.

I usually only dust twice a month with calcium/D3. I dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder and twice a month with a vitamin powder.

 

[Malicious]

Hey Harry,

It's Jay...I changed my screen name. Your set up needs a few tweeks befor Thursday. The cage is going to be big for the little guy, so your going to want to cup feed for a while. Hang a feeder cup from a vine and put the food into it allowing easy access for the little guy, a deli cup and a zip tie works well for this. A cage of that size would be overwhelming to try and hunt down food. The house flys are going to be tuff to catch aswell, I would get some 2 week old crickets and some small Phoenix worms to give him easier access to food. The temps are a bit hot aswell, the basking temps should be in around 80-83 at best, the young ones cant self regulate body temperature well and will quickly overheat. You can achieve this by simply moving the bulb further from the enclosure or dropping the wattage. I use a 25 watt for my baby panther and a 40 watt for her older brother.(California warm winters) Panthers like humidity around 50-65%. I'm sure its dry there during the winter and thats not helping either. The use of live plants and a dripper will help, but you may need a little help from a room humidifier to keep it up. You can make that call after you get some live plants in there. For the suppliments..... Calcium w/o D3 every feeding, since his bones are going to be growing like weeds at that age. Calcium with d3 no more then 2 times a month, and pick up a multivitamin like rep-cal herp to use once a month. You cham will be tiny when you get him so try not to handle him much if at all. Take the time you have now to get ready for Thursday, and good luck!

btw... post some pictures!!!

-Jay

 

[warpdrive]

Hi Jay,

you know, I'm realy suprised that the care sheets I got from Kammerflage Kreations (chameleonsonly.com) state some crazy numbers for temps and supliments.
it's why I had to post here and see if they are good or not.

as for the temps, I'll change the bulb right now and run some tests.
will try for 80-83F

as for the humidity, like I said, I already have one plant in the cage. it's some type of umbrella tree (bonzi twisted style) that is a little too tall, but useable.

(you can see a pic of my setup just under my name in the original thread)

just adding it to my dry cage increased the humidity from 20% to 30%.
humidity shoots up to 52% after a quick misting, and if you look at the link I posted you'll see I added a white towel to the back of the cage (to get damp from misting) to help keep the humidity up between mistings.

while it's not humid in the winter much here in New York, the spring through fall months should be quite humid even with the AC on at times. the summers here can reach the high 80s to 95%+ easy outside. so I might get a humidifier to use for the winters, but the summers should be fine.
I'm also sure my humidity might go up a drop more when I finaly get the ficus in the mail...as well as adding smaller plants on the bottom of the cage.
I'll just have to judge that in about a week when I'll have some extra cash to play with.

as for feeding and supliments...

I was already thinking of using a cup for feeding as well as freerange.
you'll see in the link I provided that I cut open a "naked" bottle and hung it by his main basking site.
I will try to do some kind of combonation of freerange and cup feeding at first and adjust from there.
I also was thinking of ordering some crickets and phoenix worms from mulberry farms, as well as some mini mealworms for a treat.
I just was thinking that I could wait a little before I start mail ordering food...
I guess that is also something to think about in the upcomming day/weeks, depending on how well he is eating.

I've cared for many reptiles including snakes and I've never heared of such crazy dustings like in the care sheets I got from the breader I ordered from.
such high amounts of D3 seemed quite excesive to me and is why I asked.
already have rep-cal herptivite so I'll use that once a month as you stated.


this is the fist chameleon I'll be caring for, so I'm glad I found this forum for everyone to help straighten out a few missunderstandings.
if there are any more tips or hints, please feel free to beat me over my head untill I get it right.

Harry

 

[Julirs]

Hey Jay-I read that cage size and thought the same thing-but it is (24"x12"x24"), so it will be fine . I guess my brain wanted to put a 48 in there somehow! The temps do need to be in the low 80's as mentioned.

Harry-I am excited for you! Can't wait to see the little guy!

 

[warpdrive]

ok, I changed out the bulb from a 100w to a 40w...temps after a half hour is now at 83F.
the cage is now not as bright, but it's also not blinding to my eyes (when I walk by it) as the clamp light is NOT sitting on the cage wire, but is clamped to the top at an angle...see link for pic of what I'm talking about.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/3384682410_7a9e9ef50c_b.jpg

I also retested my humidity by misting once again.
I misted alot more this time, but still less then what I would do for real.
at this time it is 58%...I bet when I mist for real I might be able to reach 60%
I'm also sure when I get more plants it will help alot.

thanks again everyone,
Harry

P.S. Julirs, you think your excited...I waited my whole life for a chameleon, and at 42yo and just two days away from getting the little fella, I'm SO EXCITED, AND I JUST CAN'T HIDE IT...*starts dancing and singing, and waking the nieghbors up*

 

[Julirs]

P.S. Julirs, you think your excited...I waited my whole life for a chameleon, and at 42yo and just two days away from getting the little fella, I'm SO EXCITED, AND I JUST CAN'T HIDE IT...*starts dancing and singing, and waking the nieghbors up*

I hear you! I was late 30's before I got into this whole chameleon addiction! I am finding it to be an excellent mid-life crisis!

 

[dodolah]

seriously, I used Kammers dusting schedule with no problem whatsoever.
But, I dust very minimal. When I dust, none of my feeders turn white.
everybody has slightly different supplementation regime.. Kammers have been breeding chameleons for a LONG time. I think you should give them a bit of credit of their knowledge and experience in caring for chameleons.

 

[Malicious]

seriously, I used Kammers dusting schedule with no problem whatsoever.
But, I dust very minimal. When I dust, none of my feeders turn white.
everybody has slightly different supplementation regime.. Kammers have been breeding chameleons for a LONG time. I think you should give them a bit of credit of their knowledge and experience in caring for chameleons.

I was not aware of the origin of the care sheet. By all means, if thats what has been working I see no need to make alterations.The only thing that stuck out was the Cal w/D3 weekly, opposed to bi-weekly.

-Jay

 

[warpdrive]

seriously, I used Kammers dusting schedule with no problem whatsoever.
But, I dust very minimal. When I dust, none of my feeders turn white.
everybody has slightly different supplementation regime.. Kammers have been breeding chameleons for a LONG time. I think you should give them a bit of credit of their knowledge and experience in caring for chameleons.

first of all, I'm well aware that the Kammers have been breeding for a long time, and I would not buy from them if I thought that they were clueless.
after all the choices out there, I picked them, and they are not cheap.

before I even bought anything, Liddy sent me well detailed care sheets on everything from the care of the chameleon, as well as how to care for the food items I'll be using.
she ansered all my questions on the phone...we were on the phone for about an hour.
the cage was recived 3 days early (on a saturday no less), and the rest of the items (lights, dusts, and so on) was recived 1 day early.
while I did order a plant too, again it seems that it was lost in the mail, and Liddy is working on a replacement for me.

to me the above shows that Liddy (from Kammerflage Kreations) is someone I would highly recamend to anyone.

with that said, I have also done a great deal of research before and after I got my care sheets.
yet the temps and dusting requirements stated in the care sheets seem odd to me compared to what most do.
there is a big difference in both temps and the amount of dusting with D3. so big a difference that I have to ask...is something wrong here.
let me quote some of my questionable advice I was given direct from the care sheets.

"In addition to the florescent lighting, an incandescent bulb is necessary to provide proper heating. Panthers should be provided with a basking site that reaches 90-95F for babies and 95-100F for adults. "

does that sound about right to you?

"We use the following supplement products:

Herptivite (multivitamin with beta-carotene) - Mondays and Thursdays
Rep-Cal Calcium (calcium with vitamin D3) - Tuesdays and Fridays
Miner-All (calcium with essential trace minerals) - Wednesdays and Saturdays

We alternate use between these three products. The babies, juveniles and egg-laying females receive vitamin products twice a week and calcium four days a week. Our adult males are supplemented with vitamins and calcium one time each per week. "

when I read the above, thats vitamins twice a week, and D3 twice a week, calcium w/o D3 twice a week, and 1 day off.
does that sound about right to you?

it's one thing to sit here and say you use D3 once or twice a month.
it's another thing to say to use it 2 times a week for babys and juveniles.
that is a huge difference regardless that we shouuld all be dusting lightly.
it's such a difference that it would be silly for me not to question the temps and supplements in the care sheets.


so, what does everyone else think?
give it to me in simple english.
should I use such high temps? should I use such high amounts of vitamins and D3 each week?

Harry

 

[Malicious]

so, what does everyone else think?
give it to me in simple english.
should I use such high temps? should I use such high amounts of vitamins and D3 each week?

Harry

No on the temps. low 80's in the basking spot and nothing higher.

Dodolah says he's used thier suppliment schedule without issues, I just would hate to see over supplimenting occur causing kidney issues. I do respect Dodolah's expertise and the fact that he's been a successful keeper for many years, I also understand that he's growing and needs adequate amounts to provide healthy growth, yet it seams excessive in my opinion.

-Jay

 

[warpdrive]

No on the temps. low 80's in the basking spot and nothing higher.

Dodolah says he's used thier suppliment schedule without issues, I just would hate to see over supplimenting occur causing kidney issues. I do respect Dodolah's expertise and the fact that he's been a successful keeper for many years, I also understand that he's growing and needs adequate amounts to provide healthy growth, yet it seams excessive in my opinion.

-Jay

after some careful thought on this matter, I have to agree with you Jay.
I too would hate to wind up with having a new Chameleon develop kidney issues due to over supplementing.

since I have always been a ferm believer of gutloading feeders, and just trace amounts of vitamin/mineral supplements (including D3), I'll be dusting with D3 and vitamins/minerals only twice a month each.
the rest of the time, I'll be using just rep-cal calcium w/o D3 as 70% of the walk ways I've made for the panther is less then 10" from the reptisun 5.0 bulb.

as for the temps, the basking spot is mostly at 83-84F, droping down to 80F if I open my window for an hour.
in my building that I live in, I can't controle the heat that comes up, and it can get quite hot at times. so I open the window for an hour, maybe twice a day so I can breath better.

I also want to thank you Jay for being well manored after Dodola's reply.
it's OK that members here in this forum don't always agree with each other.
after all, we each have our own needs to give our pets the love that they deserve.
(you might never need a humidifier, while I just might need to get one for the winters)

update: not only is my new male baby ambilobe on it's way to me as we speak, but I have another undisclosed package also being shiped over night that could be my ficus.

OMG, my baby will be here in about 9 hours!!!!
*Harry starts dancing and singing again*

thank you Jay, and everyone else for your thoughts. (you too Dodola)

Harry

 

[Dunnigan]

On the topic of supplentation, i agree with the whole overkill theory with vitamins 2x weekly...

A guy who lives by my mom who mainly deals with bearded dragons, but also sells chameleons claims that he has raised chameleons scuessfully by using Miner-all I (the one with d3) 6 days a week and thats it.

What do you guys think of that>

 

[Malicious]

Harry, your like a kid in a candy store.....

Good luck with your new panther, and keep us all updated on his progress!

Jay

 

[warpdrive]

Harry, your like a kid in a candy store.....

Good luck with your new panther, and keep us all updated on his progress!

Jay

already got my canon G9 camera ready to take a video of him comming out of his container.
I'll probably let him crall on me for a few seconds, and then place him in his cage.
after an hour of him in his cage, I'll then mist the plant(s).

sadly, I then have a job to do. so I'll be gone for a few hours.

apon my return I'll feed him, and maybe try to take a few pics of him for all to enjoy.

kid in a candy store? na
worse if you ask me...like how can I go to sleep knowing that he'll be here in about 8 hours?

Harry

 

[Malicious]

already got my canon G9 camera ready to take a video of him comming out of his container.
I'll probably let him crall on me for a few seconds, and then place him in his cage.
after an hour of him in his cage, I'll then mist the plant(s).

sadly, I then have a job to do. so I'll be gone for a few hours.

apon my return I'll feed him, and maybe try to take a few pics of him for all to enjoy.

kid in a candy store? na
worse if you ask me...like how can I go to sleep knowing that he'll be here in about 8 hours?

Harry

Sounds good!

I'd mist it down prior to putting him in as they can get pretty thursty after the long journey. I would not be super suprized if he doesnt eat much if any the first day, as he's been through a wild day with shipping and all. Put a few in his cup and see how he does, if he eats them all add a few more. It will take a few days for him to get acclimated to the new set up and before ya know it he will be hanging in his favorite spot and soaking up the rays!


and btw....TRY and get some sleep...

-Jay

 

[warpdrive]

Sounds good!

I'd mist it down prior to putting him in as they can get pretty thursty after the long journey. I would not be super suprized if he doesnt eat much if any the first day, as he's been through a wild day with shipping and all. Put a few in his cup and see how he does, if he eats them all add a few more. It will take a few days for him to get acclimated to the new set up and before ya know it he will be hanging in his favorite spot and soaking up the rays!


and btw....TRY and get some sleep...

-Jay

thanks for the last second tips Jay. you have been a huge blessing.

and yes I'm going to close my eyes while lounging on my couch...but I think we both know that I'm not going to be able to sleep.

Harry