Sick male veiled chameleon- MBD? Please Help

[Begregs1102]

We have a sick male veiled chameleon and do not have the money to visit a vet until this Friday! Please help us keep our little Adam alive until then!!!!!!!

He has gradually lost his appetite, has lost enough weight so we can see his rib cage, and is not drinking water. we are hand feeding and hand watering him everyday. He will eat crickets or worms if they are nearby but has stopped hunting almost completely. His eyes are not sunken in and he does not appear to have any fractures anywhere. However, he does seem to be loosing his sight. He will consistently miss crickets with his tongue and will reach for branches that are not there. Other than that his eyes seem fine, he is just a little disoriented.

Yesterday I was feeding him and he displayed some pretty intense labored breathing. Wheezing with a gaping mouth. for the first time he refused water and was aggressive with me. He has become lethargic and doesn't move much. his poop seems to look okay. He is having trouble shooting out his tongue. Yesterday I presented him with a worm and he was very interested in it but it took him four tries to get his tongue out of his mouth to get it. He was tyring so hard to use his tongue that it looked like he was trying to vomit something up. I think we have proper lighting, heating, and nutritional supplements. I have done tons of research online and in books and we are following the correct protocal as far as I can tell. The weird thing is that we have a female in the exact same kind of set up and she look wonderful! She seems healthy and happy. I have done oodles of research and feel that we are following the proper proceedures for lighting, heating, nutrition, gutloading, etc... We are not sure but think he is between 2-3 years old at least. Could this be metabolic bone disease? If so, what can we do at home to help him until we can get in to see a vet? If it is not MBD, then what could it possibly be and what can we do to help?

 

[pssh]

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[Begregs1102]

cage: screen 2x2x4ft
lighting: 24in UVB flourecent light and 100 watt light for basking
temp: 75-85F, basking 90-95F
humidity: averages around 50, use humidifier daily and mist at least twice a day
plants: scheffelera
Cage is in a quiet room in the corner. Room has a ceiling fan that we sometimes put on low to get some air circulating. We have his cage elevated sitting on top of a cabinet. The top of his cage is probably about four feet from the ceiling.
Location: Colorado

He is a veiled chameleon
Not sure of age, guessing 2-3 years old
He has been in our care for about four months
We handle him about once a week while cleaning the cage
We feed him mainly crickets, meal worms, waxworms, and sometimes greens and fresh carrots. Dust them with calcium/vit D3 twice a week and herptivite multivitamin about three times a month
We have a dripper set up that falls onto the leaves and mist at least 2-3 times a day
His poop looks fine, right now. A couple of weeks ago his poop was white and creamy but now it is solid and brownish black.
We don't know anything about his history. We asked the people in the shop when we bought him, but they had no information, not even an age!

Presenting problem is stated in my last post. But basically he is lethargic, has lost a significant amount of weight, doesn't appear to drink on his own and seldom eats on his own. He is having trouble using his tongue and extending it outside of his mouth. And he displayed labored breathing once- weezing, with a gaping mouth. He also grasps for branches that are not there and frequently misses prey with his tongue (however, he has displayed this behavior the entire time we have had him).

 

[justjumpit621]

If you read the post about supplementation by dr wheelock, you will see that if your uvb light is good you should barely need to use calcium with d3, especially not every week. And you only need to use the vitamin supplement once a month. Try calcium without d3 every other feeding, calcium with d3 once or twice a month, and a multivitamin supplement once a month.

 

[jannb]

I would suggest not waiting until Friday to take him to the vet. Chameleons go down very fast. Maybe the vet will work with you on payment Friday or hold a check til Friday or something. Make sure you go to a vet that knows chameleons.

 

[Begregs1102]

Thanks to both of you for your advice. I have told our local vet our situation and have offered to pay half now and half in a check post-dated for Friday. but because I have never been there before they are unwilling. I have accumulated a list of vets that are a couple of hours away that deal with reptiles and will be calling tomorrow! Hopefully, someone will be sympathetic to our situation and help our little guy!!!!

I had read about your supplementation advice, but the shop we got them from suggested the increased amount. I think now, we will back off, like you said! Seems like the people in the shop weren't taking very good care of them!

 

[beeze]

As jannb said make sure to go to a vet that's familiar with chameleons or you are wasting your money.

 

[jannb]

When's the last time you changed the UVB bulb? They recommend changing every 6 months if you don't have a UV meter to check it.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Which vets are you looking at?
Which one do you use for chameleons?
Where are you in Colorado?

-Brad

 

[OldSkoolxReasons]

Also, I know everyone uses them including myself, but some Schefflera are semi-toxic for chams. The schefflera arbicola are not goot for chams and can make a cham sick if ingested, which can easily happen when feeding if a feeder is on or near a leaf. I have never heard of any others causing problems but it says they are all toxic on some plant lists. Heres what that one looks like. Good luck.


http://www.plantimporters.com/Plant 120 - Schefflera arboricola - Dwarf schefflera bush.GIF
(there is also a tree version of this one with the exact same leaves and it is still bad I believe)


Justin

 

[Courtney]

Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can giv

However in my experence with a senegal cham that lost his appetite every year at the same time.....totally different reason......my vet who was an experienced cham vet told me not to force feed with insects. use stage one baby food like bananas and stuff thats green make sure its stage one and use a syringe with a soft tip and measure ments on it so u know how much your giving to them. the bannanas help to jump start with sugar makes them feel happier. again this is only a quick fix to keep them energized so the can walk around and function without us worring about their grip. This is only suggested as a quick fix till you getthat cham to a vet!!!

 

[Begregs1102]

Thanks to everyone for responding-

We have not changed our UV bulb because we have only had it for four months- I heard to change it every six month or so, is this correct or should we go ahead and change it?

And thanks for the info on scheffoleras- My boyfriend is removing it from his cage as I write. I had heard conflicting evidence about it, but at this point, I think it's better safe than sorry!

I live about forty five minutes into the mountains near Boulder, CO. I have located a couple of vets in surrounding Denver areas. I haven't used a vet for our chameleons yet because they haven't had any problems until now! Do you know of any that have a good reputation?

And thanks to the person with the baby food info, I have actually been reading about just that this morning.

 

[Julirs]

Schefflera is definitley on the SAFE list. I use them problem free in all of my cages. Here is what the Cham Forum plant list says about them:

Toxicity and Irritants
Schefflera arboricola has a very low toxicity level when eaten. Large amounts of the plant would have to be consumed to be of concern to most chameleons. Caution should be used when using this plant with a chameleon that is known to be a big plant eater (2/3).