Reggie Wont Eat

[Graanto]

My Chameleon: Male Ambilobe Panther; 6 months old. weight about 8 oz. He seems small to me for 6 months

Handling: Usually not much maybe onceevery couple weeks so i can clean his cage. Recently everyday to apply oinment and to give liquid calcium.

Feeding: feed him every day 8-15 Crickets. Gut loading with high calcium cricket diet food and some kind of yellow jelly, which is supposed to be like water or something. I got both products from Flukers Farm.

Supplements: Dust with Rep-cal w/0 D3 every day. Rep-cal W/ D3 and Herptivite twice a month.

Watering: automatic mister: I have all the lights and the mister on a timer. When everything comes on the mister goes for 30 seconds every hour. helps keep the humidity up.

Fecal Description: solid, black with white urate. have not checked this past week.

Cage Type: Screen cage, 18x12x20

Lighting: heat lamp, and UVB lamp

Temperature: basking area is around 87. Nighttime lowest it gets is 75.

Humidity: between 40 and 50. still trying to get it up as much as possible. i had to move him out of the pool area which is making it hard to keep humidity up.

Plants: One pathos, than a bunch of fake braches wrapped with fake vines

Placement: 4 or five feet off the ground on top of a counter. No vents. I have an indoor pool, and the room never drops below 78 degrees because my mother has tropical birds living in there as well. The birds do not make a lot of noise and I put my chameleon far away from them. I had to recently move him becuase we are having work done on the pool and i though the noise would freak him out too much.

Location: Midwest

Problem:

sorry for the long post in advance:

Since about last monday i noticed reggie wasnt eating any more. i thought maybe he was about to shead and sure enough that tuesday or wednsday he did. however the day after his shed he basically slept all day. the next couple of days he was having issues opening one of his eyes. So i took him to the vet on saturday and the vet gave me some oinment to put on his eys twice a day. She also gave me some liquid calcium to give him because she though he looked like he was developing an underbite which is apparently an early sign on MBD ( i dont really see an under bite, but i am listening to the vet and have been giving reggie the calcium every day).

The vet also suggested that i need to start hand feeding him. she told me to go buy gerber baby food, she said either beef, turkey or chicken. i have not done this yet but i did buy some wax worms to try and feed him. He wont eat out his cup, but he has let me hand feed him three or four worms which isnt nearly has much food as he was eating before all this. his eye also already looks alot better and he can keep open all day with no problems and his behavior has returned to normal other than not eating. so i think he is defintly doing alot better. he is also still drinking water and seems well hydradeted.

First off does it make sense to feed reggie baby food? the vet gave me a syringe to use but she didnt tell me how much food to feed him. her reasoning is that by just getting some food in him until he starts eating on his own will help him recover better and keep him energised. makes enough sense to me. Also what can i do to try and get Reggie to eat on his own again? my next thought is to try and go back to letting the cickets go free in his cage.

 

[lumbasammler]

Hello,
i unfortunately don´t get what the baby-food thing means
But simply giving him calcium if he already gets some every day doesn´t make much sense to me.
He should have enough calcium so the problem could be that he can not use it because he does not have enough Vit D3 which is needed to resorb the calcium from the digestive tract -> means: he can have tons of calcium but will still not be able to use it without Vit D3.
I don´t think it´s unusual that your cham won´t eat to much after you visited the vet with him which means a lot of stress.
Did i get it right that his eye is okay again and he does no longer sleep during the day?

 

[Pilotman800]

This is kind of out of my hands. However, I have never heard of feeding baby food to a cham.

I did notice that the gut loading can use a bit of improvement. I'm going to link you to Sandrachameleons blog.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

What type of UVB light are you using?

 

[lindawaz]

A variety of feeders is recommended to keep them interested. As for letting the crickets free range

Is he moving around enough to hunt?
Will you be able to keep track of the crickets at the end of the day so they do not feed on him while sleeping.
If he does not find them right away after about an hour or so the dusting is now gone and he will not be getting his supplements.

They baby food, I have heard of pears for making them poop, but not the meat variety.

Pilotmann is right about the gutloading you need to improve that. Plus some people say it also changes up the taste of the crickets though I have never eaten one

Any chance the birds are stressing him because he knows he is their food in the wild?

 

[lumbasammler]

Another thought: maybe you overfed him?
Many chams won´t eat after they were fed too much for a longer period.
Do you regularly feed other feeders than just crickets?
Some chams would appearingly also not eat if they always get the same feederes, which is quite reasonable i think.

 

[fluxlizard]

I have never heard of feeding baby food to a cham.

I have very successfully used baby food when treating imported chameleons for parasites and when using baytril. A bit of baby food mixed with yogert with live acidophilus with a tiny bit of reptivite or mineral with d3 can work wonders to bring them up to weight sometimes. I've seen dramatic weight gain in some chameleons in less than 2 weeks of this (steady weight gain from day 1 on and considerable improvement in fat deposits over the duration.) Amount would depend on the size of the chameleon. I would think most 6 month old panthers could take a cc unless they are very small for their age. Be sure you slide the syringe gently all the way down into the gut and push the slurry in slowly so you don't drown the lizard.

That said- unless your chameleon is thin, I question the need to force feed anything if it has only been several days since it was eating normally and if it will hand feed a few now. If the problem is very mild MBD which is so mild you seem to wonder if the vet is correct at all- it could be corrected by using appropriate lighting and/or increase in calcium powder with d3 rather than giving liquid calcium which won't do anything unless your lizard has the d3 it needs from lighting or diet.

It doesn't sound like your vet has provided the answer to why the lizard isn't eating- only treatment for the symptoms hoping the situation will correct itself. Unless the vet is convinced it is MBD related and it is in fact worse than you seem to believe.

Beware of waxworms- I would not use them on a sick lizard. Their skin although soft is difficult to digest, and I've met so many lizards over the years who start on waxworms and then refuse everything else and then eventually refuse even the waxworms. They are good for occasional use, but not daily use for even a short amount of time in my opinion.

If MBD is the problem- put your lizard some real sunlight if you can- even if it is just opening a south-facing window for an hour or so in the afternoons and placing him on a plant in front of the screen.

 

[Graanto]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. ill try and get a recent picture of reggie so you can advise if he really is too thin. the vet said he was about 8 oz. im not sure if that is light for a 6 month old or not.

Pilotman- i will read the blog thanks

lindawaz - i dont think the birds had too much affect because he was eating preety good up until this last shed. he would eat almost 15 crickets a day. i am also worried about the crickets munching on him which is why i moved to cup feeding, but maybe he just dosent like the cup idk. I think he moves around pretty good though.

lumba - i guess its possible he was over fed. I am very new to chameleons, but he just seems small compared to other 6 month old chameleons i have seen on the forums so i would think if he was being over fed he would be beefier, but i also didnt think he was too thin, so... IDK. Yes he eye seems to be alot better.

flux - what should i try other than Wax worms? and thanks for the info on them.

I will post pictures of my setup and find out the light brands im using, im pretty sure one of them is a reptisun 5.0. A

 

[Graanto]

Here are the pictures i promised. What does everybody think? More pictures to follow

 

[lumbasammler]

I´d set up more horizontal branches so he can use the given height.
Do you use a fogger?

 

[Graanto]

Here are more pics

 

[Graanto]

I´d set up more horizontal branches so he can use the given height.
Do you use a fogger?

No, I do not use a fogger.


Update: I saw Reggie eat today. he hunted down 3 large crickets. This morning i let 5 crickets loose in his cage and than put about 8 or 10 in a cup. he went crazy trying to hunt down the free crickets but showed no interest in the crickets in the cup. I guess he has issues with the feeding cup I'm using.

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

just a gentle reminder... one I am sure you have already thought of, it's getting close to "big boy" cage time. the 18x12x20 is not much room for him to move about.
Not trying to be bossy, ok?
anne

 

[lumbasammler]

No, I do not use a fogger.


Update: I saw Reggie eat today. he hunted down 3 large crickets. This morning i let 5 crickets loose in his cage and than put about 8 or 10 in a cup. he went crazy trying to hunt down the free crickets but showed no interest in the crickets in the cup. I guess he has issues with the feeding cup I'm using.

Good thing as foggers do more harm than good to chameleons.

How does you cup look like?
I prefer green or brown ones. For me it has proven best to use something like this: https://www.meinpaket.de/medias/sys_master/public/j/o/eh/10041494143006.jpg
It´s a bonding sheet which will make the cup look like it was made from wood which makes it a part of his natural environment.
You might also try to build something like this:
The idea came from a member of this forum although i can´t remember who it was but it works great! You simply have to make sure that the feeder cant escape and you´ll have a simple and good way of controlling how much he eats.

How to use: I have made some "hooks" of wire with which i can attach the bottle to the mesh on the sides of the enclosure.


Advatages: The feeders climb the mesh on the back side of the bottle so the chameleon can see them better.

 

[Robyrango]

No, I do not use a fogger.


Update: I saw Reggie eat today. he hunted down 3 large crickets. This morning i let 5 crickets loose in his cage and than put about 8 or 10 in a cup. he went crazy trying to hunt down the free crickets but showed no interest in the crickets in the cup. I guess he has issues with the feeding cup I'm using.

It definitely be the case he has issues with that long cup. I started cup feeding 2 weeks ago because my 6 month old panther refused hand feeding. I was using a shallow cup so eventually the crickets could jump out. Didn't like much the idea of having loosing crickets and I thought I could use a taller cup, like the one you have there to have also a better control of how much was he eating.. Well, the tall cup lasted 2 days, he refused to eat from that! Back to the shallow one, don't know exactly how much he's eating but he's keep pooing and roaming around! He looks happy and healthy that's good enough to me! Good luck with your guy!

 

[Graanto]

just a gentle reminder... one I am sure you have already thought of, it's getting close to "big boy" cage time. the 18x12x20 is not much room for him to move about.
Not trying to be bossy, ok?
anne

Yep definitly started thinking about it and will probably buy one in the next week or two.

 

[lindawaz]

I had a smaller cup and Lily would not use it.

I took a cold cut tub- (the kind that the hillshire farms deli meats come in, red lid)
Because they are clear I duct taped the outside to make it opaque.

The crickets don't jump out and they have some space to run around it there.
She greets me at her door when she sees it coming now and high tails it to the spot I put it.
You never know because Chams will be Chams- quirky little creatures
I would try different types of containers and I bet you will find one they like and accept

 

[Graanto]

Update: Reggie is doing alot better. His eye looks completely healed and he is eating alot. i took him for a recheck at the vet on saturday and the vet said Reggie's weight increased 50% and that he looks great. He went from 8 oz to 12 oz which is good.