Piebald Wont Drink Water - Dehydrated

[butterfliieffect]

how do i hydrate my cham that refuses to drink water from leaves or the dripper ?
her eyes are a bit sunk and i was told that she needs water , however she will not drink any water provided for her , she also eats dirt and moss at least once a day

 

[butterfliieffect]

photos

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

What colour are the urates? Pure whit, almost white, yellow partly yellow?

How old is she?
Do you have a lay in in her cage? Is that what the white container is?

Is she sleeping during the day at all?

The UVB light should be the long linear tube light type. Most recommended…Reptisun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%.

 

[butterfliieffect]

its pure white .

i just got her on jan. 16th (from petco , i didnt know that was a bad thing until after the purchase )
im not sure how old she was when i got her .

she has been sleeping during the day a bit lately .
a lay ?? somewhere for her to dig ?

& ok , i will update the lighting .

 

[CalamityCrow]

its pure white .

i just got her on jan. 16th (from petco , i didnt know that was a bad thing until after the purchase )
im not sure how old she was when i got her .

she has been sleeping during the day a bit lately .
a lay ?? somewhere for her to dig ?

& ok , i will update the lighting .

Sleeping during the day is a bad sign. That usually means there are issues going on.

A lay *bin is what she meant. I don't see a lay bin in your setup. If you didn't know, veiled chameleons lay eggs whether or not they've mated with a male. They're a bit like chickens that way - she needs a lay bin so that she can dig a tunnel and lay her eggs inside it. If she can't lay her eggs, she'll become what is called eggbound and that's usually fatal.

The lighting is an absolute MUST - update that ASAP if you can.

If the urates are pure white, she's plenty hydrated. Chameleons are often shy drinkers and there may never be a moment when you see her actually drink.

Her eating soil may be a sign she's unbalanced with supplements too. I'd suggest filling out the following form (copy and paste it into a new reply) so the folks here can go over your husbandry and look for areas that may be the cause of her issues.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Ghostbirb]

Chameleons are shy drinkers, so often we don't see them drink. Sunken in eyes can mean many things, from dehydration to sickness. Chameleons also should not be sleeping during the day. Ill tag a few more people who can help better than me @Beman @MissSkittles

 

[kinyonga]

Oops…missed the soil and moss eating. Has she been pooping since she’s been eating the moss? I would remove the moss as it could cause impaction. The females often eat soil, but more often sand when they are gravid (producing eggs).

Please answer the husbandry questions @CalamityCrow provided for you. Be specific about your answers. With the supplements we need to know if there is D3 in any of them and prEformed (vitamin) A in .

We need to figure out why she’s shutting her eyes during the day as well. Could be that she’s having egg laying issues or the lights Could be the problem or it could be something else.

 

[butterfliieffect]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - piebald veiled chameleon , F , purchased Jan. 16 2023 (she could have been maybe a month or two old when i got her , i wasnt informed ) .
• Handling - Fairly often , maybe every 2 days .
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham?
• crickets , wax worms , meal worms , horn worms - tried dubias but she does take them .
• What amount? she eats about 6 crickets , one large horn worm , 2 or 3 wax and meal worms a day .
• What is the schedule?i add crickets in the morning along w 5 wax and 5 meal . she eats thru out the day .
• How are you gut-loading your feeders? i give the crickets lettuce blueberries bananas or carrots and broccoli, and i have an orange chard plant on the floor of the enclosure for them when they are roaming .
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• i have the zoomed repti calcium without d3 and the zoo med reptivite w d3 ... i have given her a coated horn worm twice a month of the repti calcium and was using the reptitive once a week for three weeks before i learned i shouldnt give her so much d3 i havent given her any since .
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use?
• i have a mister , i spray down the leaves of all the plants til they drip then i water from the top to simulate rain til its a bit saturated . 4-5 times a day . each time about 1.5/2 minutes .
• Do you see your chameleon drinking? ive seen her mess around w the dripper and drink directly from it , maybe twice , ... and ive seen her drink from the leaves about the same .
• 
  
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• normally its wet looking w white or white ish yellow . today looks dry and i dnt see any white .
• no testing for parasites that i know of , i unfortunately got her from petco .
• 
  
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• screen , 4ftx2ft
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• zoo med , hooded 100watt basking light and and reptisun 10.0 uvb
• 12 hr lights , 12 darkness
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• basking 85-110 floor 72-68
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• 50-70 spraying different temp water depending on my needs .
• 
  
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• golden pothos , a money tree , hibiscus plant ( not floweing yet ) , orange shard , dracena
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• in my room , near an always closed double pained window , and my tv . im the only real traffic . the cage is about 2.5 ft off the floor
• 
  
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
• Los Angeles Ca .

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[butterfliieffect]

her current state .

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. I see @kinyonga was helping you and she is the best. To save her a little time, I’ll go thru your husbandry. Just give me a bit of time.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’ll be putting my feedback in bold. Things that are more serious to change will be in red bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - piebald veiled chameleon , F , purchased Jan. 16 2023 (she could have been maybe a month or two old when i got her , i wasnt informed ) . She looks to be around 5-6 months old to my eyes.
• Handling - Fairly often , maybe every 2 days . Chams get very stressed by handling too often, especially veileds. Here’s a great blog on building trust with them, which is the best place to start to reduce their stress. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham?
• crickets , wax worms , meal worms , horn worms - tried dubias but she does take them .
• What amount? she eats about 6 crickets , one large horn worm , 2 or 3 wax and meal worms a day . I wish I had a better estimate of her age as how much to feed her is dependent upon that. Are you able to post a pic of her with something of a standardized size so we can see how big she is? I’d also like to see her sides without light glare on them.
  I’m attaching a couple of graphics below - one on feeders and the other on gutloading. Wax worms are very fatty, meal worms aren’t the greatest for nutrition and hornworms are basically bags of water…all should be used as occasional treats or for mealworms, when nothing else is available.
• What is the schedule?i add crickets in the morning along w 5 wax and 5 meal . she eats thru out the day . Yes to feeding once in the morning. Using a feeding station to contain the feeders is always best and there are several that help reduce escapes. Here’s just a couple. https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/shooting-gallery-chameleon-feeder-1/ https://www.fullthrottlefeeders.com/
• How are you gut-loading your feeders? i give the crickets lettuce blueberries bananas or carrots and broccoli, and i have an orange chard plant on the floor of the enclosure for them when they are roaming . You could improve on this by using more veggies and greens and less fruits. Well fed healthy bugs are more nutritious to your chameleon, so it’s more important than we tend to think.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• i have the zoomed repti calcium without d3 and the zoo med reptivite w d3 ... Great supplements! i have given her a coated horn worm twice a month of the repti calcium and was using the reptitive once a week for three weeks before i learned i shouldnt give her so much d3 i havent given her any since . Not a good schedule. You need to use the calcium without D3 lightly dusted on every insect at feeding except one feeding every other week. For that one feeding, you’ll use the ReptiVite with D3 on every insect. She has not been getting near enough calcium and too much multivitamin and D3. How long since you’ve used the ReptiVite with D3?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use?
• i have a mister , i spray down the leaves of all the plants til they drip then i water from the top to simulate rain til its a bit saturated . 4-5 times a day . each time about 1.5/2 minutes . You can reduce this to 2-3 times a day for 2 minutes each time. Is best to mist before light go on and off and then mid day is optional. You can use a dripper instead for about 15-20 minutes mid day.
• Do you see your chameleon drinking? ive seen her mess around w the dripper and drink directly from it , maybe twice , ... and ive seen her drink from the leaves about the same . Many chams are secret drinkers. I have 5 and none drink in front of me. We go by the color of urates to determine hydration status.
• 
  
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• normally its wet looking w white or white ish yellow . today looks dry and i dnt see any white . White urate is fully hydrated. It’s ok and normal to see one end be a little bit orange or yellow, especially if they haven’t pooped for a couple of days.
• no testing for parasites that i know of , i unfortunately got her from petco . It’s always a good idea to have a veterinary wellness visit and a fecal check for parasites with all new animals. Petco doesn’t test.
• 
  
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Since I tend to talk a lot, I’m breaking this into two sections (or more).

• 
  

 

[MissSkittles]

Part 2

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• screen , 4ftx2ft Very good!
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• zoo med , hooded 100watt basking light and and reptisun 10.0 uvb You do not have the correct uvb. The screw in uvb is unable to provide the levels needed any farther than 2-3” away. The standard is a linear T5 ho fixture with either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%. Then basking area should be about 8-9” down from the light for ideal uvb level. I like the Arcadia as the bulbs are good for 12 months vs 6 months for ReptiSun. It’s been difficult to find the Arcadia Pro T5 in 24”. This is where I just bought one from. https://www.reptilebasics.com/t5-light-fixtures/arcadia-prot5-uvb-kit-24-with-bulb/
• 12 hr lights , 12 darkness
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• basking 85-110 Way too hot!!! Basking temps for young chams and girls should stay around and no higher than 80. floor 72-68 This is good.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• 50-70 Too high! Ideal is between 30-50% during the day. High humidity plus high temps greatly increase the risks for respiratory infection. spraying different temp water depending on my needs . Why? You should only be using room temp water. Water that we think is lukewarm can actually be scalding hot for a chameleon.
• 
  
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• golden pothos , a money tree , hibiscus plant ( not floweing yet ) , orange shard , dracena Good selection. Your hibiscus will be needing a super strong plant light, like the Arcadia Jungle Dawn. Basically all plants except pothos need additional lighting to grow and thrive. The chard may also need as much sun as a hibiscus.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• in my room , near an always closed double pained window , and my tv . im the only real traffic . the cage is about 2.5 ft off the floor I take that to mean it is sitting on something that is 2.5‘ high. Chams feel safest when they are able to get higher than us.
• 
  
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
• Los Angeles Ca .

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
I don’t see that her eyes are sunken in. I do see that she has a small bulge at the inner corner of her eye that is not normal. She could have something in her eye, it could be swelling from too much of vitamin D3 and preformed A or something else - I don’t know.

Your pretty girl will be laying eggs even if she’s never even seen a boy. Veileds mature quickly and she can start producing eggs as young as 5-6 months old. We do get a warning though. She will change from her almost solid green coloring to her big girl colors of teal, orange or mustard yellow and get patterns. Then she’ll become receptive to mating and become very restless, constantly roaming all over her enclosure looking for a boy. Hopefully by this time, you’ll have prepared a lay bin for her and put it in her enclosure. I’ve found my girls prefer opaque bins that are at least 12” long and wide and are filled to about 6” deep with play sand. The sand needs to be kept moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. Since this is something that is best to keep permanently in her enclosure, you’ll want to drill some tiny drain holes in the bottom of it and try to place it in a spot that she doesn’t tend to poo.

 

[butterfliieffect]

Part 2

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• screen , 4ftx2ft Very good!
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• zoo med , hooded 100watt basking light and and reptisun 10.0 uvb You do not have the correct uvb. The screw in uvb is unable to provide the levels needed any farther than 2-3” away. The standard is a linear T5 ho fixture with either ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6%. Then basking area should be about 8-9” down from the light for ideal uvb level. I like the Arcadia as the bulbs are good for 12 months vs 6 months for ReptiSun. It’s been difficult to find the Arcadia Pro T5 in 24”. This is where I just bought one from. https://www.reptilebasics.com/t5-light-fixtures/arcadia-prot5-uvb-kit-24-with-bulb/
• 12 hr lights , 12 darkness
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• basking 85-110 Way too hot!!! Basking temps for young chams and girls should stay around and no higher than 80. floor 72-68 This is good.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• 50-70 Too high! Ideal is between 30-50% during the day. High humidity plus high temps greatly increase the risks for respiratory infection. spraying different temp water depending on my needs . Why? You should only be using room temp water. Water that we think is lukewarm can actually be scalding hot for a chameleon.
• 
  
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• golden pothos , a money tree , hibiscus plant ( not floweing yet ) , orange shard , dracena Good selection. Your hibiscus will be needing a super strong plant light, like the Arcadia Jungle Dawn. Basically all plants except pothos need additional lighting to grow and thrive. The chard may also need as much sun as a hibiscus.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• in my room , near an always closed double pained window , and my tv . im the only real traffic . the cage is about 2.5 ft off the floor I take that to mean it is sitting on something that is 2.5‘ high. Chams feel safest when they are able to get higher than us.
• 
  
• Location - Where are you geographically located?
• Los Angeles Ca .

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
I don’t see that her eyes are sunken in. I do see that she has a small bulge at the inner corner of her eye that is not normal. She could have something in her eye, it could be swelling from too much of vitamin D3 and preformed A or something else - I don’t know.

Your pretty girl will be laying eggs even if she’s never even seen a boy. Veileds mature quickly and she can start producing eggs as young as 5-6 months old. We do get a warning though. She will change from her almost solid green coloring to her big girl colors of teal, orange or mustard yellow and get patterns. Then she’ll become receptive to mating and become very restless, constantly roaming all over her enclosure looking for a boy. Hopefully by this time, you’ll have prepared a lay bin for her and put it in her enclosure. I’ve found my girls prefer opaque bins that are at least 12” long and wide and are filled to about 6” deep with play sand. The sand needs to be kept moist enough to hold a tunnel without collapsing. Since this is something that is best to keep permanently in her enclosure, you’ll want to drill some tiny drain holes in the bottom of it and try to place it in a spot that she doesn’t tend to poo.

thank you all so much , ...

i will add photos of her near a ruler for size once she settles at the top after waking up , ...

im just going to go thru and answer the questions you asked and pose a few from what i read in your assessment .


different temp water for humidity : i called petco about a week into owning her while having issues keeping temps and humibity and was instructed to use hot water to create humidity in the enclosure when its off .

they also informed me that the basking area should be hotter than i had perviously had it so i got a higher watt basking light to match the temps the suggested , as well as humidity . but will quickly readjust both the temps and humidity .

im searching for a place that sellsthe correct lightening fixture and bulbs so that i can possibly pick those up today , along w different feeders , like the ones shown above , .... i was suggested Pheonix worms by a reptile pet store , do you all know anything about them and if they are adequate feeders ?

its been at least 3 weeks since i gave her the reptivite w d3 as i was instructed i should only give it to her once a month , .. will be changing that up immediately as well .

i have to search a chameleon vet in los angeles , ive only seen one but im sure there has to be more . so that i can get her checked for parasites .

---xx

i dnt think i fully understand the concept of a lay : could used a more in depth explanation of how to build one , but i will do some research on that while im out shopping for supplies for Cayenne (which is my chams name btw )

also , i initially bought the chameleon kit by zoomed and have come to realize that , nothing in that kit actually works correctly for my cham to thrive .

she seems to have decided she should use the bathroom right above and sometimes directly inside of the food bowl , is there anyway to correct the behavior or should i just move the bowl ??

am i to understand that she is less likely dehydrated and more likely that its a problem w lighting and feeding that has her eyes not as burged as ive seen other chams ??

oh , and to address that bump and redness near her eye , she has a piece of wayward rope fabric stuck in the fold of her little eye for a while but would run whenever i came w the tweezers , i finally got it though , ...

 

[butterfliieffect]

thank you all so much , ...

i will add photos of her near a ruler for size once she settles at the top after waking up , ...

im just going to go thru and answer the questions you asked and pose a few from what i read in your assessment .


different temp water for humidity : i called petco about a week into owning her while having issues keeping temps and humibity and was instructed to use hot water to create humidity in the enclosure when its off .

they also informed me that the basking area should be hotter than i had perviously had it so i got a higher watt basking light to match the temps the suggested , as well as humidity . but will quickly readjust both the temps and humidity .

im searching for a place that sellsthe correct lightening fixture and bulbs so that i can possibly pick those up today , along w different feeders , like the ones shown above , .... i was suggested Pheonix worms by a reptile pet store , do you all know anything about them and if they are adequate feeders ?

its been at least 3 weeks since i gave her the reptivite w d3 as i was instructed i should only give it to her once a month , .. will be changing that up immediately as well .

i have to search a chameleon vet in los angeles , ive only seen one but im sure there has to be more . so that i can get her checked for parasites .

---xx

i dnt think i fully understand the concept of a lay : could used a more in depth explanation of how to build one , but i will do some research on that while im out shopping for supplies for Cayenne (which is my chams name btw )

also , i initially bought the chameleon kit by zoomed and have come to realize that , nothing in that kit actually works correctly for my cham to thrive .

she seems to have decided she should use the bathroom right above and sometimes directly inside of the food bowl , is there anyway to correct the behavior or should i just move the bowl ??

am i to understand that she is less likely dehydrated and more likely that its a problem w lighting and feeding that has her eyes not as burged as ive seen other chams ??

oh , and to address that bump and redness near her eye , she has a piece of wayward rope fabric stuck in the fold of her little eye for a while but would run whenever i came w the tweezers , i finally got it though , ...

i see the pheonix worms as not recommened nevermind

 

[butterfliieffect]

 

[butterfliieffect]

looks like shes about 4.5/5 inches long ... its hard to tell in the photo

 

[MissSkittles]

Pheonix worms are also known as calci worms, bsfl (black soldier fly larvae) and not sure what else. They are great staple feeders! Because their calcium to phosphorus ratio is so high, they are the only feeder that you don’t even need to dust with calcium.
One of the problems with Petco and the other chain pet stores is that the employees don’t often really know how to care for all of the animals that they sell. Most probably go by the corporate guidelines which are not correct to begin with. It’s not to fault the employees…most probably do their best but it’s asking a lot for them to remember the correct husbandry for chameleons, leopard geckos, crested geckos, corn snakes, ball pythons, bearded dragons, various fish, ferrets, mice, hamsters, rabbits, various birds and whatever else they sell. Many exotics vets can’t even achieve that! Speaking of vets, this should help. https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/got-any-good-exotic-vets.187594/ Personally I would try to get in to Dr Greek as I know he is very experienced and knowledgeable of chameleons.
I have to get ready for a work meeting, but later can go over the whole lay bin and laying egg process if you like. It looks like your girl hasn’t yet developed her colors/patterns so you have a little bit of time I think.

 

[butterfliieffect]

 

[kinyonga]

Lay bins…
https://chameleonacademy.com/ep-205-creating-a-chameleon-egg-laying-bin/