New Veiled Eye Problems

[Yeahna]

Hi All!

This is my first time posting.

I have just gotten a new little veiled at 3 months old. I have had him for about 3 weeks now and he has been doing really great.

This is my first cham, but I have done my best to educate myself how to best care for him and provide a suitable enclosure.

I do plan to completely rebuild the enclosure for when he gets a little bigger. As you can see in the pics, right now the whole thing is supported by some thick bamboo posts, which is working fine.
As it is all glass with screen top, I am building a small frame for either side that will be strong enough to support more hanging plants and easier to run his branch networks from side to side.
The enclosure is 120L x 60W x 100H.
There is a 75 watt heat emitter, UVB, mister, fogger, and makeshift dripper.

The issue started two weeks ago, where he was walking around with one eye closed.
The next day, both eyes where closed and one looked somewhat swollen.

I gave him a warm water soak with reptisafe added for electrolyte and calcium as per advice i read in another forum.
He had a little drink and was overall not very pleased with the situation, but it worked wonders, within an hour he had both eyes open and was back to normal.
Since, he has been acting normal, eating well, exploring his new surroundings and basking.
I gut feed his crickets with carrots, spinach and oranges and dust them before feeding with calcium daily and vitamin d3+calcium once a fortnight.

However, today he has his left eye closed again! I think it looks a bit sunken also.

I'm not sure what the cause is, as the temp and humidty are fine. Im sticking to the schedule for temps, humidity and timing of the whole process as advised on chameleon academy.

He is definitely dehydrated as per his urate i inspected yesterday, which is the first one I've seen that had a yellow/orange tinge to it and his poop looked a little dry also.
Im not sure if that is related to the eye problem, but it seems it could be.

I have a mister, fogger, and DIY dripper, but clearly, he is not drinking or there is something else going on.

Any advice around the setup and the eye/dehydration problem is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Beppo]

Hello! Welcome to the awesome chameleon forums! I believe that generally eye problems come for improper supplementation or lighting. That being said I am no expert. What I do know is that it would be best to have your husbandry reviewed. If you fill out the how to ask for help form I am linking, and then re paste with your answers it will speed up the process of getting help for your beautiful chameleon.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

Best of luck to you!

 

[Yeahna]

Thanks Beppo.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon
  • Species: Veiled Chameleon
  • Sex: male
  • Age: 3-4 months
  • Been in my care for 3 weeks
• Handling
  • I only have handled him when i gave him the soak as mentioned in my post. So just once.
• Feeding
  • Feeding: 8-10 small crickets per morning - i will often find 1 or 2 at the end of the day that he either didnt find or wasnt interested in
  • Gut loading: carrots, spinach, oranges, other greens
• Supplements
  • Reptile one calcium - every feeding
  • Reptile one calcium with D3 - once a fortnight
• Watering
  • Mist: Exo Terra Monsoon - 2 nozzles
    • 8am, 9pm, 1am, 4am, for 2 minutes
  • Fogger: ReptiFogger
    • 1am to 6am - turns on and off to keep humidity at desired level
  • Dripper: Homemade. Its just a empty drink bottle with a pin prick in the side that drips onto a large leaf - very accesable to where he spends most of his time
  • Drinking: i have never seen him drink
• Fecal Description
  • Urate: White with yellow/orange tinge - i only noticed this colour for the first time yesterday. Every other clean up has looked white and moist
  • Poop: Slightly dry as of yesterday - Every other cleanup has looked moist
  • I compared the droppings to pics in one of the forums on this site
  • Parasites: Chameleon has not been tested for parasites
• History
  • Eye issue: The issue started two weeks ago, where he was walking around with one eye closed.
    The next day, both eyes where closed and one looked somewhat swollen.
    Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
    I gave him a warm water soak with reptisafe added for electrolyte and calcium as per advice i read in another forum.
    He had a little drink and was overall not very pleased with the situation, but it worked wonders, within an hour he had both eyes open and was back to normal.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type
  • Glass sides, screen top - 120x60x100cm
• Lighting
  • UVB: Get your pet right LED UVB Bar 7.0 - 9 watt
  • Schedule: 7am - 7pm
• Temperature
  • Heat Lamp: Dome Reflector Ceramic Suit Up To 100w E27 Screw Fitting 22cm
  • Bulb: Ceramic heat emitter - 75 watt
  • I used to use a daylight heat bulb but found it wasnt warming the enclosure sufficiently
  • I measure basking temp with a laser temp gun and ambient with a temp probe
  • basking is about 30 degrees (7am-7pm)
  • ambient is about 23 degrees in the day and 15 at night (heat emitter will come back on if temp drops past 13 at night emitter will come back on until temp reaches a max of 18 - as there is no light)
• Humidity
  • Measure humidity with probe
  • Day time is about 50-60%
  • Night time is 90-100%
  • I turn fan on in the morning over top of enclosure which brings the humidity down a bit quicker for about 1 hour
  • Create humidity using fogger and mister
• Plants
  • Umbrella tree
  • Golden Pothos
  • Devils Ivy
  • Fake plants
• Placement
  • Enclosure is in spare room of house - gets nearly no traffic at all
  • The enclosure is on a stand that is also 120 cm tall - so the top of enclosure stands 220 from ground
  • No vents, fan overhead which only comes on when i put it on to increase airflow in enclosure

Current Problem
As per pics and explanation in my first post, he is dehydrated and has one eye closed again. It doesnt seem swollen as far as i can tell.


Specs for UVB:

• The most energy-efficient way to provide UVB – low wattage, high output!
• Made with high-precision Japanese LEDs, the best in the world
• Combines UVB, UVA, and full visible spectrum lighting which is ideal for bio-active enclosures.
• Essential to help prevent health complications such as Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD)

These LED Bars include a 30cm link cable enabling multiple units to be connected and run through a single power source.
UVB
UVB wavelengths are what allows reptiles to produce vitamin D3. However, only certain UVB wavelengths (from 290-315nm) help reptiles synthesize Vitamin D3. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 295nm to 320nm.
UVA
UVA is an important part of reptile vision, which helps them regulate behaviours such as feeding, mating and general activity. A small portion of UVA wavelengths (from 320nm-335nm) also help regulate Vitamin D3 production. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 320nm to 400nm.
VISIBLE LIGHT
Visible light is extremely important for all reptiles, even nocturnal species. The amount of visible light a bulb emits is measured on a temperature scale corresponding to the warmth of the light relative to colour and is measured in units of Kelvin (K). Natural sun light has a Kelvin temperature between 4,500 and 7,000K. The Get Your Pet Right UVB Lamps emit a colour temperature of 6500K and a CRI (colour rendering index) of 96, allowing for the most naturalistic artificial light to be provided to your reptile or amphibian .

• 7% is suitable rainforest/ occasional basking species such as Green Tree Frogs, Boyd’s Forest Dragons, Carpet and Childrens pythons

 

[Andee]

Did the eye closing/swelling last a prolonged time? Was it during a misting?

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you post a photo of the ingredients and front of the supplement containers please?

 

[Yeahna]

Did the eye closing/swelling last a prolonged time? Was it during a misting?

Hello,
The first time it lasted 3 days and i do not believe it began during a misting. He isn't very fond of being under his misters, even though the water is warm.
First day: fine all day until the afternoon i noticed one of his eyes was closed
Second day: one eye closed still
Third day: both eyes closed and one slightly swollen

This time, one eye has been closed since he woke up. I watched him walk to his sleeping spot last night and both where fine so i cannot see any reason why other than lack of water. but i actually have no idea if these two things are related.

 

[Yeahna]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you post a photo of the ingredients and front of the supplement containers please?

Hello,
Thanks its good to be here.

Here are the photos. Im afraid they dont give too much information, but this is however a reputable reptile brand in Australia.

 

[Andee]

I am leaning towards a vit A deficiency even though it seems short for one. Lights seem unlikely with your set up.

 

[Yeahna]

I am leaning towards a vit A deficiency even though it seems short for one. Lights seem unlikely with your set up.

Is this a matter of getting for vitamin A into the crickets or using additional supplements?

Update - he has opened the eye, but it is squinting.

Clearly there is something wrong if this isnt an isolated event. hmmm

 

[Andee]

Additional supplements are recommended, usually with a calcium and vit D people switch off with a mutlivitamin with vit A

It is possible he will need to see the vet for a multivitamin booster since he is young

 

[kinyonga]

It seems you have one calcium powder with D3 and one calcium powder without D3.

It’s recommended that you use a phos free calcium powder at all feedings but two a month lightly dusted on the insects. Then, twice a month, two weeks apart, use a vitamin powder with a prEformed source of vitamin A and D3 in it lightly dusted in the insects.

For gutloading, I would skip the spinach (it can actually bind the calcium) and use dandelion greens, kale, collards, mustard greens, zucchini, squash, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, carrots, a very small amount of apple or pear or berries, etc.

 

[dinomom]

Thanks Beppo.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon
  • Species: Veiled Chameleon
  • Sex: male
  • Age: 3-4 months
  • Been in my care for 3 weeks
• Handling
  • I only have handled him when i gave him the soak as mentioned in my post. So just once.
• Feeding
  • Feeding: 8-10 small crickets per morning - i will often find 1 or 2 at the end of the day that he either didnt find or wasnt interested in
  • Gut loading: carrots, spinach, oranges, other greens
• Supplements
  • Reptile one calcium - every feeding
  • Reptile one calcium with D3 - once a fortnight
• Watering
  • Mist: Exo Terra Monsoon - 2 nozzles
    • 8am, 9pm, 1am, 4am, for 2 minutes
  • Fogger: ReptiFogger
    • 1am to 6am - turns on and off to keep humidity at desired level
  • Dripper: Homemade. Its just a empty drink bottle with a pin prick in the side that drips onto a large leaf - very accesable to where he spends most of his time
  • Drinking: i have never seen him drink
• Fecal Description
  • Urate: White with yellow/orange tinge - i only noticed this colour for the first time yesterday. Every other clean up has looked white and moist
  • Poop: Slightly dry as of yesterday - Every other cleanup has looked moist
  • I compared the droppings to pics in one of the forums on this site
  • Parasites: Chameleon has not been tested for parasites
• History
  • Eye issue: The issue started two weeks ago, where he was walking around with one eye closed.
    The next day, both eyes where closed and one looked somewhat swollen.
    Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
    I gave him a warm water soak with reptisafe added for electrolyte and calcium as per advice i read in another forum.
    He had a little drink and was overall not very pleased with the situation, but it worked wonders, within an hour he had both eyes open and was back to normal.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type
  • Glass sides, screen top - 120x60x100cm
• Lighting
  • UVB: Get your pet right LED UVB Bar 7.0 - 9 watt
  • Schedule: 7am - 7pm
• Temperature
  • Heat Lamp: Dome Reflector Ceramic Suit Up To 100w E27 Screw Fitting 22cm
  • Bulb: Ceramic heat emitter - 75 watt
  • I used to use a daylight heat bulb but found it wasnt warming the enclosure sufficiently
  • I measure basking temp with a laser temp gun and ambient with a temp probe
  • basking is about 30 degrees (7am-7pm)
  • ambient is about 23 degrees in the day and 15 at night (heat emitter will come back on if temp drops past 13 at night emitter will come back on until temp reaches a max of 18 - as there is no light)
• Humidity
  • Measure humidity with probe
  • Day time is about 50-60%
  • Night time is 90-100%
  • I turn fan on in the morning over top of enclosure which brings the humidity down a bit quicker for about 1 hour
  • Create humidity using fogger and mister
• Plants
  • Umbrella tree
  • Golden Pothos
  • Devils Ivy
  • Fake plants
• Placement
  • Enclosure is in spare room of house - gets nearly no traffic at all
  • The enclosure is on a stand that is also 120 cm tall - so the top of enclosure stands 220 from ground
  • No vents, fan overhead which only comes on when i put it on to increase airflow in enclosure

Current Problem
As per pics and explanation in my first post, he is dehydrated and has one eye closed again. It doesnt seem swollen as far as i can tell.


Specs for UVB:

• The most energy-efficient way to provide UVB – low wattage, high output!
• Made with high-precision Japanese LEDs, the best in the world
• Combines UVB, UVA, and full visible spectrum lighting which is ideal for bio-active enclosures.
• Essential to help prevent health complications such as Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD)

These LED Bars include a 30cm link cable enabling multiple units to be connected and run through a single power source.
UVB
UVB wavelengths are what allows reptiles to produce vitamin D3. However, only certain UVB wavelengths (from 290-315nm) help reptiles synthesize Vitamin D3. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 295nm to 320nm.
UVA
UVA is an important part of reptile vision, which helps them regulate behaviours such as feeding, mating and general activity. A small portion of UVA wavelengths (from 320nm-335nm) also help regulate Vitamin D3 production. The Get Your Pet Right LED UVB fitting emits UVB wavelengths from 320nm to 400nm.
VISIBLE LIGHT
Visible light is extremely important for all reptiles, even nocturnal species. The amount of visible light a bulb emits is measured on a temperature scale corresponding to the warmth of the light relative to colour and is measured in units of Kelvin (K). Natural sun light has a Kelvin temperature between 4,500 and 7,000K. The Get Your Pet Right UVB Lamps emit a colour temperature of 6500K and a CRI (colour rendering index) of 96, allowing for the most naturalistic artificial light to be provided to your reptile or amphibian .

• 7% is suitable rainforest/ occasional basking species such as Green Tree Frogs, Boyd’s Forest Dragons, Carpet and Childrens pythons

He is not going to drink during those middle of the night mistings. And the time might be too short to stimulate drinking. I'd add a late day misting, 4 or 5 pm of around 4 or more minutes

 

[Yeahna]

It seems you have one calcium powder with D3 and one calcium powder without D3.

It’s recommended that you use a phos free calcium powder at all feedings but two a month lightly dusted on the insects. Then, twice a month, two weeks apart, use a vitamin powder with a prEformed source of vitamin A and D3 in it lightly dusted in the insects.

For gutloading, I would skip the spinach (it can actually bind the calcium) and use dandelion greens, kale, collards, mustard greens, zucchini, squash, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, carrots, a very small amount of apple or pear or berries, etc.

Ok, i will find a suitable vitamin A supp for dusting. Thanks

 

[Yeahna]

He is not going to drink during those middle of the night mistings. And the time might be too short to stimulate drinking. I'd add a late day misting, 4 or 5 pm of around 4 or more minutes

Hello,

Ok thanks for the advice i will do that.