New to Chameleons, need advice on setup

[Sir Spiral Tail]

I have wanted a chameleon for many many years, and I was just out looking at local pet stores and found some veiled and fischer chameleons. I think due to size and colors I will go with the Veiled. I have kept a lot of different reptiles over the years, starting with anoles when i was very young, and have had iguanas, leopard and blizzard geckos, and others over the years. I have a 50 gallon tank that is taller than it is wide. Every tank I have seen on this forum are all wire mesh and not a glass tank at all. At the pet store they have them in a glass tank with a wire cage top. I just want to know if it is a bad idea to keep him in a glass tank, or what options i have with that. I also need to know what kind of lighting to use, and if anyone recommends an automatic mister or would a drip system be better....i guess i just need all around start-up advice, if anyone could help, or point me to some good trustworthy resources. Thank you all so much for your time and knowledge. Peace and happiness

 

[pssh]

Checklist:

-Screen cage of appropriate size
-live plants that are non toxic and have covered organic fertilizer free soil
-a normal incandescent house bulb of appropriate wattage
-a dome to put the house bulb in
-a linear reptisun 5.0 and appropriate hood
-a digital thermometer or temp gun to check temperature
-a digital hygrometer to check humidity (you can buy a 2 in 1 thermometer/hygrometer)
-three supplements: calcium with d3, calcium without d3, and a multivitamin that contains no vit A (make sure all are phos free)
-a pump style spray bottle to spray chameleon
-a dripper of some sort
-drainage for the water so that the cage does not flood
-many horizontal, vertical, and diagonal branches/vines/perches make sure there are many at different levels under the basking branch so he can move around under them to get a certain temp, the closest one to the bulb (6-8 inches under it) should have the maximum temperature a baby veiled can handle (80-83 degrees)

All of this can be bought on lllreptile.com but it would be cheaper to buy the uvb hood, normal incandescent house bulb and dome, plants, and digital thermometer from home depot or lowes (unless you are getting a temp gun, then tempgun.com) Veiled chameleons can handle temps as low as 50 degrees (at night) so there is no need to use a night light, though I would try to keep it around 60 for a baby. If you do need extra heat, use a space heater or ceramic bulb.

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

many thanks, the local pet store employees did not seem to know all that they should. I would hate to kill the poor creature simply because of ignorance, this helps me a lot.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Check this out:

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Employees of these stores usually have some decent general reptile knowledge (they know about leopard geckos, bearded dragons and snakes)
Chameleons are very specific and not as commonly kept.
You have come to the right place to educate yourself on their particular husbandry.

-Brad

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

is a bird cage with very small spaces between the bars be a bad idea temporarily? until i can build something more appropriate that is. maybe even line it with a mesh...i am very anxious to get started, but obviously don't want to do it wrong...the local stores here don't have many options, and don't have chameleons in stock very often. They are no longer able to order veiled, so once this guy i found is gone, they can't get anymore...

 

[pssh]

Depends on the spacing, the size if cage, and the size/age of chameleon.

You can order a chameleon online. It better to wait for a Cham than do something wrong (and potentially harmful) because you rushed into it.

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

ya, just an idea, glad i asked! The veileds they have are about 2-3 inches body length, so i was considering something along those lines, maybe wrapped in mesh, or lined on the inside. It would be very temporary. I suppose i will just take a look and see what i can find, there is a hobby lobby right next door, so perhaps i can just get the materials there and construct a suitable environment myself...thank you so much for your time and advice.

 

[SpinyFranky]

I kept a chameleon in a bird cage for a while, temporarily of course. The results were actually fine. He was a run away that I finally found in my expansive back yard... amongst maybe 300 orchids that my grandmother hand grows.

I had gotten rid of all his previous needs, so the birdcage was a last minute use.

However, with a bird cage there are a lot of things to consider:

1. How far is the spacing between bars compared to the size of the chameleon? Always ensure that they are spaced smaller than the animals head. He can't go anywhere if the head can not follow.

2. Will he be kept indoors or outdoors? Outdoors and bird cages allow the high probability that insects will invade the cage, attracted to the mist/plants/lights. This potentially brings contaminated material into the enclosure, such as fly eggs, bacteria - even the possibility that your chameleon will eat an insect that has been in areas sprayed with pesticides or fertilizers. On the opposite hand, food the chameleon should be eating, may also escape.

A solution would be if you are keeping the enclosure outdoors to wrap it with thin mesh, which you can pick up cheaply at home depot. Wrap the mesh around the entire cage and secure it well.

3. If the cage is indoors, I would still consider wrapping it in the mesh.

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As Pssh said before, it is better to have a setup and no chameleon than a chameleon and no setup. Chameleons are not like other animals, mistakes in husbandry can often lead to the death of the animal, or a costly vet visit.

Please consider, that if you are buying this animal from a generic pet store - petco for example, that you are not going to be getting a very high quality pet. These animals are usually sold to petco by breeders for pennies on the dollar, and the animals treatment reflects on that. Like you said, they were being kept in a glass enclosure with a screen top - thats already a bad sign.

Go back to the pet store and snoop a bit
things to look for:

Does their enclosure have an obvious basking spot? if you can't see it - the cham probably does not have one.

Does the enclosure have a Suitable UVB source?

What are they feeding the chameleons? are these gut loaded?

How are the animals hydrated?

I can tell you for a fact that my local petco, does:
Not use a basking spot.
Not use a UVB source
Not gutload
MAYBE mists once a day - water bowl provided of course
DOES - keep animals past 5 months of age in the same enclosure ( this is a no no ) ive seen juveniles in the same cage with neonates.....
DOES feed the chameleons a diet consisting of meal worms... and mealworms
DOES keep these chameleons in a glass case

Please compare this list to what you see in the pet shop you are considering purchasing from.
This improper husbandry will usually ensure that your purchase will never be as healthy/happy/strong as it could have been. It can also mean expensive trips to a specialized veterinarian, and premature death of the animal.

To top it all off, these pet stores will usually charge you two to three times the actual cost of the animal.

Please, before purchasing an animal that comes from these conditions - consider that you can purchase one at less than half the cost, and much much healthier.

Examples of people I have gotten chameleons from before, and of course the animals turned out excellent.
1. http://flchams.com/
2. http://chameleonsnorthwest.com/
3. http://tikitikireptiles.com/

Before purchasing any chameleon make sure that you have the proper setup. Too many people keep these poor animals in aquariums and then wonder why the cham was dead in two months - Its unfair to the animal.

Consider purchasing this first
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...-cage-packages/-/38-gallon-chameleon-package/

It is a more than decent starter setup for the animal, and the price is great.

Or even this, everything you need to get started - including a healthy animal to start with.
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/animals/chameleons/-/veiled-chameleon-package/

Or you can purchase everything separately and go with higher quality products. I even made you a sample purchase
http://lllreptile.com/store/cart

This would be a great start and the products are of superior quality - they will last the chameleons entire lifetime. Except the enclosure, which will probably need to be replaced with a larger one.

I hope this helps,
S.F

Edit:

The cart shows it contents on my screen, however this may not be true on yours.

Product Qty Total

18 x 18 x 36 inch Aluminum Screen Cage
$57.00 each
Screen Cage Trim Color: Grey

$57.00

Zoo Med 18" Repti Sun 5.0 UVB bulb
$17.99 each

$17.99

Exo Terra Jungle Vine Small
$5.99 each

$17.97 - this is for three

8 1/2" Aluminum Ceramic Fixture
$9.50 each

$9.50

2-Pack Zoo Med 50 Watt Basking Bulbs
$10.99 each

$10.99

72 Inch tropical vine
$3.99 each

$7.98 - for two.

20" fluorescent hood fixture
$26.99 each

$26.99

$26.99

Subtotal $121.43
Tax TBD
Shipping $16.95
Total $174.87

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

Thank you very much, the all in one kit is probably what i will go with then. I would be spending that much at the least for a poor setup. i appreciate all the help, and will be on my way soon.

 

[Lil]

new carpet chameleon

Well, to make a long story short @ Christmas time I got this cute very small veilied cham. He was in a small tank in the back of the store he was so small he was not yet big enough to even be viewed. But it is funny when you come in with money how quick they are to sell you something that was entirley too small to go home and to beat all they set me up with a med-size exo-terra tank, all glass. Well needless to say the next morning I got up and this poor little guy was just hanging by his tail under his basking light so I quickly scooped him up and placed hiim back in the middle of the tank. I called the girl that sold him to me from the pet store and she was kind enough to come over to my house and we then preceeded to set up the nole starter kit, which I felt was a bit her size. However while we were setting up the other cage she took a dive from would have only been about 9", when the pet store worker picked her up she turned from a bright green to a brown to a charcoal black and I was then told to put her into a baggie and into the freezer, I returned her the next day and then our weather got real cold for about 2 weeks which in my mind gave us enough time to get things how she would like it. She freaks me out because she is not basking under the heat lamp instead she is basing inthe front under the repti glo 5.0uvb she even stays their when her blue moon lilght is on and she really likes climbing upside down on the top of her screen enclosure, if we can without totally stressing her out I think we are going to try to put a 10x20 screen enclosure for a tank top on the inside of her house as long as we can get it in there very securly, then she will have something besides the greenery plants to hold on to. Sorry this was so long just needeed to get it all out!
Thanks Lil

 

[pssh]

I found it cheaper to buy everything separately. There are coupons for the calcium without d3, then there are package deals for the vitamins and calcium. Buy two vines, a reptisun 5.0 (24" if you're getting a male chameleon, and 18-24" if you get a female but it depends on her adult cage) I bought a 2x2x4 cage and sectioned off the bottom for a bit and cup fed.

I think I bought everything else at home depot.
Where do you live?

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

I live in Springfield, Missouri. I was considering the 38 gallon reptarium from lllreptile. But if it is something i will just have to replace once the little guy becomes a big guy, then i might as well do the whole setup; saves on shipping that way as well. I am looking at about 200 dollars to spend, so the kit works out pretty well, what do you suggest otherwise?

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

so really i could get the glass and screen cage, the 24" light, and vines on that site, and then a heat lamp would be cheaper at a supply store you think??

 

[pssh]

Well I suggest a screen cage for better air flow, then buy the vine, supplements, UVB light, and a dripper there. Then buy plants, basking light and dome, UVB hood, a thermometer/hygrometer, a pump mister, and river rocks at a hardware store.

Runs you about 150-200 with a 2x2x4 aluminum screen cage depending on the local prices around you and any other small things you want.

 

[Sir Spiral Tail]

right on...well i will have to weigh my options then and see what i can come up with. I thank you so much for your time, it means a lot