New enclosure - cammy not adapting/scared

[whiterob]

Our veiled chameleon was living in a wooden enclosure happily for a few months, we just bought a exoterra explorarium with the intention of it being cammy's permanent home.

I find it difficult to make it very dense with foliage and branches, etc, as everything moves around when I carry it.

I would appreciate some suggestions from users of this enclosure as to how best to make use of it.

The main point of the post is this:

She seems terrified in this enclosure -she is always dark, until she sleeps, and spends most of the day hiding underneath leaves at the bottom of the enclosure. It is now summer in South Africa and for the first time I am taking her outside during the day. She displays the same 'fear' when inside though.

She is getting dehydrated (sunken eyes) and isnt currently eating. I am misting her and the enclosure about 10 times during the day - soaking the leaves.

She is about 15 months old.

Should we give her some more time, and leave her alone outside to get used to it?

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

Our veiled chameleon was living in a wooden enclosure happily for a few months, we just bought a exoterra explorarium with the intention of it being cammy's permanent home.

I find it difficult to make it very dense with foliage and branches, etc, as everything moves around when I carry it.

I would appreciate some suggestions from users of this enclosure as to how best to make use of it.

The main point of the post is this:

She seems terrified in this enclosure -she is always dark, until she sleeps, and spends most of the day hiding underneath leaves at the bottom of the enclosure. It is now summer in South Africa and for the first time I am taking her outside during the day. She displays the same 'fear' when inside though.

She is getting dehydrated (sunken eyes) and isnt currently eating. I am misting her and the enclosure about 10 times during the day - soaking the leaves.

She is about 15 months old.

Should we give her some more time, and leave her alone outside to get used to it?

mornin' mate, IMHO, explorariums arent designed to be a housing cage, but more so say for sun baskin or outdoor temporary use. your cham was happy and content in the other cage for a reason.

if the exlorarium is causing these pretty bad signs of stress, than put her back in her old wood cage. stop the stress asap, you can mist and what not all you want, but if the cham is heavily stressed, it wont eat or drink and bring fourth even more problems. hope it helps

 

[Trace]

mornin' mate, IMHO, explorariums arent designed to be a housing cage, but more so say for sun baskin or outdoor temporary use. your cham was happy and content in the other cage for a reason.

if the exlorarium is causing these pretty bad signs of stress, than put her back in her old wood cage. stop the stress asap, you can mist and what not all you want, but if the cham is heavily stressed, it wont eat or drink and bring fourth even more problems. hope it helps

I disagree. Yes a new cage will cause some stress to a chameleon but it will not cause it to become majorly ill. This is a female chameleon and perhaps she needs (or is past that point and is potentially egg bound) a place to lay eggs. Perhaps she hasn’t has access to UV. Perhaps there is something physiological going on with this animal. Just assuming it’s the cage is bad advice Jabroni.

To the OP; please fill out the following “How to ask for Form” so we can get a decent handle on your situation and offer some pertinent advice.

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.

Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[ChameleonsInMyHouse]

now before you call me a jabroni..KNOW YOUR ROLL AND SHUTTT YOUR..... explorariums are NOT permanent cages. yes your suggestions are logical, but its still stress. wouldn't anybody in their right mind minimize it, or stop it when they see it?
you're right, maybe he doesnt have access to uvb... not really any places for lights on that type of enclosure anyways, so instead of persuading this member to keep the cage and see if its something else is half assed. he's not going to be able to sufficiently use it anyways..

sooooo..in the mean time... if the cham was perfectly fine in the other cage. PUT HIM BACK. DUHHHH

its a mean time temporary benefit

[EDIT] Her* in exchage for all the "Hims"

 

[whiterob]

Pointless

I posted on this forum with caution because all I ever see is new members/pet owners being criticized for what they are doing/trying to do. I posted, because I wanted help with what I thought was a super simple question.

chameleonsinmyhouse answered the question. The question I asked.
Trace, you are making this too technical. My chameleon was fine in the other tank - eating well, drinking well, relaxed and always a nice green colour.
Having read a lot of info tho, I decided that the tank doesnt allow for enough air circulation and because of the glass front and the myth/fact/opinion that glass stresses the animal out, I decided to get the explorarium because I have been told that it is the perfect animal enclosure. Obviously everything is subjective and every other 'pro chameleon keeper' will tell me something different.

Im not going to fill out that long-as-hell form. I have kept a happy, healthy chameleon for long enough to be confident in what I have been doing, and I know well that all that will happen is I will be shot down from every angle once I have filled it in, because again, everything is subjective. One will say dont feed superworms, another will say feed super worms.

I moved my chameleon into a new enclosure - it is now stressed and dark, dehydrating and not eating. The question remains...Do I leave it for a few days for her to get used to the new surroundings or do I move her back into her old enclosure? Can a explorarium successfully be used as a permanent home.

I have noted chameleonsinmyhouse' advice, and I thank you. My hope is for other, friendly, simple nonjudgmental replies.

 

[laurie]

Hello, welcome to the forum. I know as a new person getting conflicting advice can be an issue. One of the things it is difficult to know is who is giving you the advice and what the level of chameleon knowledge is.

For the people who have given you advice, one has about a year with chameleons and the other 20 plus years. Trace is a very respected member of this foum, and chameleonsinmyhouse is still learning. I am sorry to tell you all the answers are not simple.

I would follow Traces advise as she is trying to learn about you and your cham before just dropping an easy answer. It is your choice what you do.

 

[Hoj]

i would def, try and fill out the form, but either way i would be looking at a egg issue as well as anything else you may have changed,
useing the expolrium may make certain things more difficult and hense not as effective but as long as it is of sufficent size i dont see why you couldnt use it.
which bring us back to questions that all can be anwsered with the how to ask for help form. ie, cage sizze, placement, lighting, temps, humidity, and on and on
what i did was copy it and paste into word or similar program and then filled in all the anwsers and just saved it as a document that i can pull up whenever i need,
its not that big of a hassle

 

[hinoco1225]

I posted on this forum with caution because all I ever see is new members/pet owners being criticized for what they are doing/trying to do. I posted, because I wanted help with what I thought was a super simple question.

chameleonsinmyhouse answered the question. The question I asked.
Trace, you are making this too technical. My chameleon was fine in the other tank - eating well, drinking well, relaxed and always a nice green colour.
Having read a lot of info tho, I decided that the tank doesnt allow for enough air circulation and because of the glass front and the myth/fact/opinion that glass stresses the animal out, I decided to get the explorarium because I have been told that it is the perfect animal enclosure. Obviously everything is subjective and every other 'pro chameleon keeper' will tell me something different.

Im not going to fill out that long-as-hell form. I have kept a happy, healthy chameleon for long enough to be confident in what I have been doing, and I know well that all that will happen is I will be shot down from every angle once I have filled it in, because again, everything is subjective. One will say dont feed superworms, another will say feed super worms.

I moved my chameleon into a new enclosure - it is now stressed and dark, dehydrating and not eating. The question remains...Do I leave it for a few days for her to get used to the new surroundings or do I move her back into her old enclosure? Can a explorarium successfully be used as a permanent home.

I have noted chameleonsinmyhouse' advice, and I thank you. My hope is for other, friendly, simple nonjudgmental replies.

This is very discouraging to me. The form is not that long and if you care about your chameleon, you should be willing to fill it out on the off chance that you were given wrong information about its care at some point. The purpose of the form is not for people to tell you that you should or shouldn't be feeding superworms (although some people feel the need to state their opinions about things like that anyway) - the purpose of the form is to make sure you are providing all the basics for your chameleon like a 5.0 UVB light, correct basking and ambient temperatures, calcium supplementation, regular misting, an egg-laying bin for females, etc. When I've had questions about my chams, I filled out the form even when I was positive I was doing everything right. Even so, I still got really good advice that I utilized from that point on.

Just to clarify - we are not assuming you are doing something wrong. We encourage everyone to fill out the form because most of us on the forums genuinely care about chameleons and earnestly want to help others when they have questions. Some common problems that chameleons have are made very apparent with certain questions. For example, if someone fills out the form and it shows that the chameleon has not had access to a proper UVB light for a while, the cham more than likely has MBD.

Finally, if you really know as much about chameleons as you say, you should be aware that chameleons hide illness and disease VERY well. Chameleons, like many other reptiles, typically do not show any signs that they are sick until it gets really bad. Because of that, your chameleon very well could have been sick for a while (even while she was green/eating well/drinking well), and the timing when she began showing signs just happened to be the same time you moved her into a new cage. Or she could be gravid and searching for a place to lay eggs, since females usually produce eggs whether they are mated or not. I'm not implying I think one of these things is the case for you; I am just saying that these potential concerns are the reason members are encouraged to fill out the form. Since you won't tell us any more details about your chameleon or your husbandry, we have no way of knowing.

For what it's worth, I really mean all of that earnestly. I am not trying to criticize you or come across as belligerent in any way. I wouldn't take the time to type all of that out if my concern wasn't genuine. The trouble with asking advice in an online setting is that since nobody can really read someone's tone, many people assume someone meant something in a nasty/harsh/condescending way when they really didn't. I am only trying to explain that the reason so many members ask everyone to fill out the form when they have a question is because it can reveal the most common (yet detrimental) problems with chameleons like MBD, egg-binding, and impaction. It is obviously your decision what to do, but filling out the form can't hurt and it's really not that inconvenient. I believe it is the right thing to do, considering how many chameleons' lives have been saved by it.

 

[panicbess]

They seem to know whats going on. I wouldn't want too listen to half these fools either. Cham guy knows his stuff

 

[hinoco1225]

The question remains...Do I leave it for a few days for her to get used to the new surroundings or do I move her back into her old enclosure? Can a explorarium successfully be used as a permanent home.

I have noted chameleonsinmyhouse' advice, and I thank you. My hope is for other, friendly, simple nonjudgmental replies.

As far as your question goes, I don't really know how you could successfully use an explorarium as a permanent home. Not saying it's impossible, but you did say it was difficult for you to provide dense foliage within since everything moves around when you carry it. She may be stressed about not feeling as secure as she did before.

Also, how are your lights set up? It seems like using a basking light with an explorarium would burn the fabric if the light is close enough for the cham to get proper heat from it. And I suppose a UVB would still work if you are hanging it above the enclosure or something?

What kind of enclosure were you using before? I know you said it was wooden with glass, but is it a terrarium (with ventilation at the top and bottom)? If so, it still provides adequate ventilation for a chameleon, despite the glass. And there are ways to prevent her from seeing her reflection if she has been. But since you said she seemed happy in the original cage, she probably wasn't seeing it anyway, or it wasn't bothering her if she was (that usually isn't as big of a deal with females). My vote is that the original cage is her inside home (provided it has ventilation at both the top and bottom) and the explorarium can stay outside, and you can move her back and forth. That will also be less stressful for her than carrying her whole enclosure around.

 

[jesusdiedlol]

Tips

try making the habitat more diverse. Also try getting it something to hit around. That will keep it busy and make it happier.

 

[Kent67]

and spends most of the day hiding underneath leaves at the bottom of the enclosure.

This is very unusual behavior for a veiled chameleon, cage move or no. At her age it is very possible she has produced a clutch of infertile eggs even without the presence of a male. If you palpate her sides, can you feel eggs like a bunch of marbles?

 

[Hoj]

They seem to know whats going on. I wouldn't want too listen to half these fools either. Cham guy knows his stuff

this post confuses me????? cham guy??? who it this do you mean chameleonsinmyhouse???
and by fools would you be refering to the op, chamsinmyhouse, one of two mods, or me cause so far he is getting pretty darn good help

 

[Olimpia]

I'm not sure what this attitude is against sound advice? This seems like an issue that you could deal with yourself if you felt so confident in your abilities. But from what you're telling us, she sounds quite sick now. Something beyond the change of scenery is going on. Perhaps the change of cage caused stress that pushed over underlying issues to the surface, but this has probably been going on longer than a couple days.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Yes a new cage will cause some stress to a chameleon but it will not cause it to become majorly ill. This is a female chameleon and perhaps she needs (or is past that point and is potentially egg bound) a place to lay eggs. Perhaps she hasn’t has access to UV. Perhaps there is something physiological going on with this animal.

All true.......more info needed for any certainty....

now before you call me a jabroni..

sooooo..in the mean time... if the cham was perfectly fine in the other cage. PUT HIM BACK. DUHHHH

its a mean time temporary benefit

[EDIT] Her* in exchage for all the "Hims"

Lol, I can't be 100%, but it really looks to me like Trace thought your name was jabroni.... she even capitalised it....

Hello, welcome to the forum. I know as a new person getting conflicting advice can be an issue. One of the things it is difficult to know is who is giving you the advice and what the level of chameleon knowledge is.

For the people who have given you advice, one has about a year with chameleons and the other 20 plus years. Trace is a very respected member of this foum, and chameleonsinmyhouse is still learning. I am sorry to tell you all the answers are not simple.

I would follow Traces advise as she is trying to learn about you and your cham before just dropping an easy answer. It is your choice what you do.

I think both replies make perfect sense - one says 'go back to what was working', the other says 'give more info please' - Trace never actually gave any advice yet (wise woman, for sure....). Did you ever read this blog by chameleonsinmyhouse - it's the best I've read, anyway - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html

Im not going to fill out that long-as-hell form. I have kept a happy, healthy chameleon for long enough to be confident in what I have been doing, and I know well that all that will happen is I will be shot down from every angle once I have filled it in, because again, everything is subjective. One will say dont feed superworms, another will say feed super worms.

Honestly, there is no point asking for advice if you are not willing to give the relevant info.........chameleonsinmyhouse answered your question, but Trace is right too, there could well be more to it.....how would anyone know if you won't tell us what kind of light you use? Nobody wants to shoot you down, they want to help your Cham feel better......