need help with behavior/health

FVcham

Member
chameleon info:
My chameleon is a 6 month old veiled male
Was rarely handled until recently, he constantly wants out of his cage and will rush out onto my hand.
Was eating 10-12 insects daily (crickets, dubias, silkworms, phoenix worms, hornworms less frequent), however, 3 days ago, will only accept 1-2 insects
Daily calcium of earth pro A. Repashy calcium low-d one a week (increased from 2/month due to recent vitamin A deficiency he was treated for).
Automatic misting and fogging schedule from chameleon academy
Fecal is brown, white urates with slight orange portion.

cage info:
4x2x2 hybrid dragon strand
Basking spot is 87-90 ambient in the 70s
T5 10.0 about 10 inches from top horizontal branch
Three pothos, umbrella tree, bromeliad, ivy
7 horizontal branches and network branches


The problem: About three weeks ago, I took my guy outside for some actual sunshine. I put him in a 7ft artificial tree. I was taking him out once a day for about 30 minutes to an hour and he was good with going back into his cage. About 1 week ago, he has been clawing at his cage and rushing on to my hand. He paces his cage and seems restless. He calms down when taken out and put on the tree, which is what I assumed was the cause of the behavior of wanting out of his cage ( he wants on the tree). However, his appetite has dramatically decreased about 3 days ago. He went from eating food whenever offered to only eating 1-2 insects a day. He is also very restless and active in his cage, pacing and going from top to bottom. I was thinking it was the tree, however, the decreased appetite has me worried. We have B Dragon (separate room, belongs to my daughter) who has been treated for mild coccidia he seemed to come to us with.
My vet is having me skip offering food every other day to see if appetite increases (if not, I will take him in). In the meantime, wondering if anyone has seen coccidia cause restlessness and increased activity in a chameleon?


Like Quote Reply
Report
 
Last edited:
Here are cage pics and pics of him in the artificial tree he wants on so badly.
 

Attachments

  • cage.jpg
    cage.jpg
    136.1 KB · Views: 91
  • fred.jpg
    fred.jpg
    147.3 KB · Views: 88
  • Fred1.jpg
    Fred1.jpg
    140.6 KB · Views: 80
My experience with Coccidia was not as your describing. He was very lathargic, grip was weak, falling, would not eat, low weight.

Coccidia exposure would happen between fecal contamination from one to the other. Feeders that were in with the beardy being tossed back into the bin and fed to the cham... using the same cleaning towel from one cage to the other. Holding the beardy and not washing your hands prior to holding the cham. The oocysts have to be ingested to cause infection in another reptile.

What your describing sounds very typical of a maturing Veiled. He has become accustomed to going outside and so that is what he is wanting. I have one that is very used to going to an outdoor enclosure. He is much more active wanting out because he prefers to be outside in the sun.

He needs many more plants in the cage rather then sitting on the outside. The tree is high... He towers above everything which is a safety thing for them.
 
Hi!
@Beman Thank you very much for the response. I feel better!! I removed the big umbrella plant so that I could have easier monitoring of poop and clean it up faster, the umbrella plant fills the entire bottom to mid up of the cage and can make it hard to catch everything without pulling the plant out. (also, in case there was a chance of coccidia, the plant is big) Do you think I should go just ahead and put it back in? I removed two days ago after the behavior increased. Would the constant wanting out be a reason for a decreased appetite as well? maybe he's focused on getting out and not eating?
Again, thank you!
 
Hi!
@Beman Thank you very much for the response. I feel better!! I removed the big umbrella plant so that I could have easier monitoring of poop and clean it up faster, the umbrella plant fills the entire bottom to mid up of the cage and can make it hard to catch everything without pulling the plant out. (also, in case there was a chance of coccidia, the plant is big) Do you think I should go just ahead and put it back in? I removed two days ago after the behavior increased. Would the constant wanting out be a reason for a decreased appetite as well? maybe he's focused on getting out and not eating?
Again, thank you!
It could very well be... Some will do a natural curb back as they hit maturity were they reduce feeder intake. 1-2 feeders a day is actually good. At his age he should only be getting 3 every other day.

Few things to note though on the set up 90 is too hot for basking... Should be more like 80-85 max. With the UVB you will want to get a 5.0 bulb. A 10.0 bulb at 10 inches away will be way too strong of a UVI level at basking. A 5.0 or 6% will give you a 3-4 UVI at 9 inches away. While a 10.0 or 12% needs to be 12-13 inches away to have a 3-4 uvi level. At 10 inches he is getting much higher then a 4 uvi level. This has its own risks. So double check your total distance from the bottom of the fixture to the actual basking branch below it.
 
@Beman here is the cage with the plant inside normally. Do you think the top half is bare and I should add a plant up there? Sorry for all the questions! Just want to be sure his cage is the best it can be.
I will change from a 75 watt to a 50 watt basking bulb and I will switch to a 5.0 bulb. I actually have all on hand! Thank you! I'm always learning!
 

Attachments

  • 1.jpg
    1.jpg
    128.7 KB · Views: 96
@Beman here is the cage with the plant inside normally. Do you think the top half is bare and I should add a plant up there? Sorry for all the questions! Just want to be sure his cage is the best it can be.
I will change from a 75 watt to a 50 watt basking bulb and I will switch to a 5.0 bulb. I actually have all on hand! Thank you! I'm always learning!
See now that looks excellent!!! When did you pull the plant? prior to or after the eating decline? prior to or after him becoming more active? The top half will fill in once your pothos grow in more.
Never apologize for questions! This is how you learn and why we are here helping.

Double check your temps after but your really looking for that 80-85 max range. They do not need extreme heat to digest.

How are you liking your hybrid? I have the same one and love the control over temps and humidity.
 
See now that looks excellent!!! When did you pull the plant? prior to or after the eating decline? prior to or after him becoming more active? The top half will fill in once your pothos grow in more.
Never apologize for questions! This is how you learn and why we are here helping.

Double check your temps after but your really looking for that 80-85 max range. They do not need extreme heat to digest.

How are you liking your hybrid? I have the same one and love the control over temps and humidity.

Awesome, thank you! I pulled it out yesterday, after the eating decline when I got worried I might have a coccidia issue.
I love the hybrid! Actually purchased a second one for a baby kammerflage coming. ??
 
Awesome, thank you! I pulled it out yesterday, after the eating decline when I got worried I might have a coccidia issue.
I love the hybrid! Actually purchased a second one for a baby kammerflage coming. ??
When is the baby coming?


Did he become more anxious before or after you pulled the plant?
 
He was anxious before the plant was pulled. The behavior of wanting out, pacing, rushing onto my arm was for about a week before I pulled the plant. The decreased appetite about two days before.
The hybrid sits about 3ft off the ground on wire shelving rack. So his top branch is almost as high as the tree. He just wants out..lol.

I'm sorry, the baby got here Wednesday. The second hybrid we purchased is his future home. Right now he is in a temp screen enclosure. Waiting on branches to get here. Hoping to move him in soon. He is doing great so far. Can't wait to see him grow and what his colors will be. He is tiny, can't imagine him in that huge cage but I have read he'll be okay in it. :)
 
He was anxious before the plant was pulled. The behavior of wanting out, pacing, rushing onto my arm was for about a week before I pulled the plant. The decreased appetite about two days before.
The hybrid sits about 3ft off the ground on wire shelving rack. So his top branch is almost as high as the tree. He just wants out..lol.

I'm sorry, the baby got here Wednesday. The second hybrid we purchased is his future home. Right now he is in a temp screen enclosure. Waiting on branches to get here. Hoping to move him in soon. He is doing great so far. Can't wait to see him grow and what his colors will be. He is tiny, can't imagine him in that huge cage but I have read he'll be okay in it. :)


He will be fine in the big cage just make sure it is set up perfect for him. Healthy babies have no issues in regular enclosures. Same for him with the UVB and make sure temps are no hotter then 80max for baby.
Are you keeping the two separate to avoid cross contamination? This is very important if your ruling out an issue like coccidia.

I am by no means saying your Veiled has it. Honestly it can lay in low numbers and not be as obvious until a stressful event causes it to multiply like crazy in turn compromising the chameleon. And what your saying about his personality is totally what I have seen with my males. That age they become extremely active they just want a woman lol and do anything to go try and find one.
 
Yes, the two chams are separate. Separate feeders, separate tools, etc.
The age and behavior as you described it totally makes sense. It's just the sudden decline in appetite that has freaked me out. I should just get some fecals done for peace of mind. I actually got the baby as a surprise bday present because I fell in love with the veiled. I was excited but also like, oh no, because I already stress SO much about the veiled and his health.

Its interesting because my daughters beardie never actually goes in his cage, he will headbutt the door and she gets him out and always has a puppy pad to put him on. He will kind of position his legs funny when he is about to go so she puts him right on the puppy pad. Took him to the vet for a wellness exam the week we got him and it showed up in fecal. Hoping it didn't travel on a hand somehow.

Once I get the babys cage set up, I will probably send some pics, info, and temps to you so I can get some feedback and be sure it's good for him to go in!!
 
Yes, the two chams are separate. Separate feeders, separate tools, etc.
The age and behavior as you described it totally makes sense. It's just the sudden decline in appetite that has freaked me out. I should just get some fecals done for peace of mind. I actually got the baby as a surprise bday present because I fell in love with the veiled. I was excited but also like, oh no, because I already stress SO much about the veiled and his health.

Its interesting because my daughters beardie never actually goes in his cage, he will headbutt the door and she gets him out and always has a puppy pad to put him on. He will kind of position his legs funny when he is about to go so she puts him right on the puppy pad. Took him to the vet for a wellness exam the week we got him and it showed up in fecal. Hoping it didn't travel on a hand somehow.

Once I get the babys cage set up, I will probably send some pics, info, and temps to you so I can get some feedback and be sure it's good for him to go in!!
I was speaking to someone about beardies and apparently it is very common for them to have coccidia in very low numbers. Interesting that it does not seem to effect them the same way it does a chameleon. Chameleons with it can be smaller in size and weight. Never a sign of an issue until something triggers it to go into mass production. But it is highly contagious and can affect an entire collection.

After what I went through I am a firm believer in getting a fecal done. Not only is it a peace of mind thing but it is better to be safe then sorry later.

Careful it is a slippery slope once you have two to jump to three lol.
 
Back
Top Bottom