Monty's shaking when he tries to walk (not the leaf walk)

[SaintJimmy]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Veiled, male, 4-6 mo. old (I've had to estimate). Been in my care for about two months now. I think.

Handling - Never. He won't let me.

Feeding - Crickets. 7-10 small ones a day. They're about the size of my pinkie finger nail. I feed him throughout the day evenly. I don't gut load because I need to buy some bug food like bug burger or something.

Supplements - If spray calcium is okay (no d3 in it) I do that every day to most of his crickets. I dust with d3 twice a month about 3-4 of the crickets he eats.

Watering - I make water drops from my spray bottle fall down onto his ficus so he drinks them, and then mist the other leaves for about 30 seconds so they have some good precipitation on them. I do that about 3 times a day, and I see him drink just about every time.

Fecal Description - He poops every day, it's the usual darkish (sometimes light) brown followed by white. He has never been tested for parasites. Also when his poop dries, it sort of looks like horse poop. Almost as if it had grass in it.

History - He's a pretty grumpy cham. He did some of the walking on the floor thing because he didn't like his cage. I changed it up and he's fine now. He definitely has MBD and I hope the calcium will help with that.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - 16x16x20 reptibreeze screen cage.

Lighting - Goes to sleep at 6:30 PM, (USED TO WAKE UP AT 3:00 DUE TO RED LIGHT) and now wakes up at about 5:00-6:00 AM

http://s993.beta.photobucket.com/user/aurawave/library/lights Those are my lights

I am not using the red light anymore.

Temperature - Top of cage is around 85-90 degrees, bottom is about 68-70. I measured with my dad's infared temperature measurement tool he uses for home inspection. I also have dials set on top of the cage (I know they're not very accurate). Night time is about 68 degrees F constant.

Humidity - Humidity is 50-70% throughout the day and about 75% at night. I don't have fancy humidity tools so I measure with a dial (I know, not accurate enough, but it helps).

Plants - Ficus benjamina. I am planning on getting a pothos when my chameleon grows up and we get a bigger cage.

Placement - He is opposite of where I sit in my room. I only go over there to feed/water him. He is about 6 feet away (diagonally) from an airconditioning/heating vent on the ceiling, but I haven't noticed it affecting temp/humidity.

Location - Southern california

Current Problem - His little mittens shake when he grabs stuff. He'll try and grab things, and then sort of like a GPS, replan a different way to grab it. His hands are always shaky when he tries to grab things.

*ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW LONG THE RECOVERY TIME FOR MBD USUALLY IS WITH PROPER TREATMENT* I do know that MBD doesn't just magically cure itself, but how long does it normally take with proper supplements/care for it to improve?

I am giving him calcium, but his MBD isn't getting much better. I just want some tips and advice on what I should do now, because calcium isn't helping too much.

His shaky mitten walk is probably caused by the condition is what I'm saying

 

[dom1959]

unfortunately you are gonna need a lot of
patience and love!

i think it is gonna be a fairly slow process, but he will improve.

 

[DavidBuchan]

MBD can't really be 'cured', only treated. Sometimes it does reverse a bit, but some damage has already been done. I don't like Calcium sprays, I think it gets less into the lizard than a dusting with plain calcium powder.
Good gutloading will help a lot.
Usually a cham won't wake up in the dark....are there lights on at 3am?
I have heard claims that phoenix worms have really helped chams with mbd, might be worth a try. Silkworms are also high calcium food.

 

[SaintJimmy]

unfortunately you are gonna need a lot of
patience and love!

i think it is gonna be a fairly slow process, but he will improve.

I understand it will be slow, but I don't want him to suffer. I will be patient, but hope his condition improves eventually. I just wanted to know if it can be helped.

MBD can't really be 'cured', only treated. Sometimes it does reverse a bit, but some damage has already been done. I don't like Calcium sprays, I think it gets less into the lizard than a dusting with plain calcium powder.
Good gutloading will help a lot.
Usually a cham won't wake up in the dark....are there lights on at 3am?
I have heard claims that phoenix worms have really helped chams with mbd, might be worth a try. Silkworms are also high calcium food.

I know, sigh. I mean that I do want to help him, but sadly I know it will not be 'cured' like you said. I just want to see that his arms won't be brittle and weak as they were. I only got the spray because I searched 3 pet stores and could not find calcium without d3. The only calcium without d3 I could find was the spray .

Actually, he wakes up anywhere from 3:30-5:00, but there aren't usually lights on. I forgot to mention he stopped waking up so early, now it's more like 5:00. But I used to use the red light, and I think it was disturbing his sleep and causing him to wake up early.

I will try to convince my father to let me get some silkworms/pheonixes, but he said he's done spending money "on that stupid lizard". I will try as hard as I can.

 

[DavidBuchan]

From the pictures I've seen he doesn't have obvious signs of mbd, keep it up as you are doing and he should do well with you

 

[SaintJimmy]

From the pictures I've seen he doesn't have obvious signs of mbd, keep it up as you are doing and he should do well with you

I know it's harder to tell in the pictures, but you can tell better in real life.

His right leg looks like it has two elbows. Also I think his ribs are affected slightly too.

Arrgh. Again, I'm new to this, and the more I read about chameleons, the more paranoid I get.

Oh, and he's showing signs of shedding (Little piece of his skin is flaking off near his tail) this morning

his right arm
https://www.chameleonforums.com/some-more-little-monty-102057/#post937522

 

[Lovereps]

Poor Monty. MBD does seem to be the problem.
To learn a bit more about MBD and how to effectively treat it, please read veterinarian/chamkeeper Ferretinmyshoes' post about it here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Phoenix Worms are an excellent feeder.
They are much higher in calcium than most other feeders, will help your cham to heal his body and they are easy to keep.
Mulberry Farms is a reliable source of a variety of feeders, including Phoenix Worms.
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
If you have an LLL Reptile store nearby, they probably stock the plain calcium powder, which I imagine will help halt the damage faster than the spray.
Like this one:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ins/-/zoo-med-repti-calcium-without-d3--8-oz/
For great info on what to feed, gutloading and general nutrition:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/560-frequently-asked-questions-nutrition.html
Gutloading feeders with readily available veggies is always recommended to help ensure good health for your cham.
If the bugs are eating good food, it gives your cham more vitamins and minerals.
Here is good info on that:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html

 

[SaintJimmy]

Poor Monty. MBD does seem to be the problem.
To learn a bit more about MBD and how to effectively treat it, please read veterinarian/chamkeeper Ferretinmyshoes' post about it here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/wha...ase-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/
Phoenix Worms are an excellent feeder.
They are much higher in calcium than most other feeders, will help your cham to heal his body and they are easy to keep.
Mulberry Farms is a reliable source of a variety of feeders, including Phoenix Worms.
http://www.mulberryfarms.com/
If you have an LLL Reptile store nearby, they probably stock the plain calcium powder, which I imagine will help halt the damage faster than the spray.
Like this one:
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ins/-/zoo-med-repti-calcium-without-d3--8-oz/
For great info on what to feed, gutloading and general nutrition:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/560-frequently-asked-questions-nutrition.html
Gutloading feeders with readily available veggies is always recommended to help ensure good health for your cham.
If the bugs are eating good food, it gives your cham more vitamins and minerals.
Here is good info on that:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/ferretinmyshoes/446-basics-gutloading.html

Thank you so much

 

[Lovereps]

You're very welcome!
We'd all like to see Monty heal and feel better.

 

[SaintJimmy]

You're very welcome!
We'd all like to see Monty heal and feel better.

I will eventually post more pictures in general photos as he grows up. He's currently going through his first shed (with me).

I will keep upgrading his stuff, get him some more feeders other than crickets, ect.

 

[Olimpia]

I think there is a misconception with MBD, because it is an imbalance of blood calcium levels in the body which can manifest in either loss of motor function or in physical breaks and deformities when it is bad enough. You CAN cure MBD by correcting the imbalance and getting all levels to where they should be, but you may not be able to reverse the physical signs of it. But the condition can be fixed, it just takes a little time.

The best thing, honestly is a vet's help. They can do bloodwork, give you liquid calcium (easily digestibale version, not just calcium powder mixed with water) and they can help you correct the condition efficiently and safely. Because too much calcium is bad as well, so care must be taken to get things backin balance, not just imbalanced in the opposite spectrum.

Also, do not underestimate the importance of gut loading. It is going to do a lot of work for you if you can feed your bugs healthy, calcium rich veggies.

 

[SaintJimmy]

I think there is a misconception with MBD, because it is an imbalance of blood calcium levels in the body which can manifest in either loss of motor function or in physical breaks and deformities when it is bad enough. You CAN cure MBD by correcting the imbalance and getting all levels to where they should be, but you may not be able to reverse the physical signs of it. But the condition can be fixed, it just takes a little time.

The best thing, honestly is a vet's help. They can do bloodwork, give you liquid calcium (easily digestibale version, not just calcium powder mixed with water) and they can help you correct the condition efficiently and safely. Because too much calcium is bad as well, so care must be taken to get things backin balance, not just imbalanced in the opposite spectrum.

Also, do not underestimate the importance of gut loading. It is going to do a lot of work for you if you can feed your bugs healthy, calcium rich veggies.

Again, I am working on this stuff. I know it is important but my father thinks I am spoiling him I'm not.