I need som ideas :( and help

[popcan666]

Hey guys

So i need some real help here.

Let me start off by saying im going to be getting a veiled or jackson chameleon.

I have a glass terrarium roughly 4ft tall 3ft wide and 3ft deep.
I have a small computer fan hooker up sucking old air out at the mesh on the top.

I will be getting the mist king because i cant be home every single day to mist by hand.

Heres my problem. i have no drainage!!! now i had an idea and im not sure it will work but would it be possible to set the time for say 7-10 times a day but have them in say 20-30 seconds so everything gets wet but not dripping?

or is there a simple way to make a drainage system?

*****I do not want to drill the glass******

Thanks everyone!

 

[lumbasammler]

You should really get a cage with at least one side plus the top completly made of mesh.
You won´t get proper ventilation with a fan if all the rest is glass.
Also i think this cage is not high enough for a adult veiled, at least not for a male.

 

[popcan666]

You should really get a cage with at least one side plus the top completly made of mesh.
You won´t get proper ventilation with a fan if all the rest is glass.
Also i think this cage is not high enough for a adult veiled, at least not for a male.

its exo terra and has vents at the front is that enough ventalation i heard it is and this cage is about up to my waist a little more and im 5 11

 

[tattooistchameleon]

I personally use a screened 24 x 24 x 36 all screen cage which I placed a towel on the bottom because my cham never walks the bottom anyhow I have a built in misting system that mist him 5 times a day depending on your plant setup how long u wpuld mist I would think if u use live or fake decor most don't recommend glass cause reflection can cause stress to your chameleon !

 

[lumbasammler]

its exo terra and has vents at the front is that enough ventalation i heard it is and this cage is about up to my waist a little more and im 5 11

I don´t think so. Those Exo Terras are not suited for most chameleons as they really need high ventilation because they have really sensitive lungs and get sick easily.
I´d say an adult male veiled should at least have 5ft hight.
Why don´t you build a new cage by yourself?
That´s nor really hard to do and not expensive.

 

[popcan666]

I don´t think so. Those Exo Terras are not suited for most chameleons as they really need high ventilation because they have really sensitive lungs and get sick easily.
I´d say an adult male veiled should at least have 5ft hight.
Why don´t you build a new cage by yourself?
That´s nor really hard to do and not expensive.

I would personally love to do that but it gets really cold here in the winter and im wondering how ill keep humidity and heat during the winter months

 

[tattooistchameleon]

There are some great video footage on YouTube from a guy named jdog who builds his own.setups pretty interesting stuff I believe he owns all vieled he has an a to z videos on how to build screen cages with everrhing u can get at hardwarevstore

 

[lumbasammler]

I would personally love to do that but it gets really cold here in the winter and im wondering how ill keep humidity and heat during the winter months

That´s a problem but you should be able to solve it
Just build a cage from wood with 2/3 of one side and the entire top mesh.
How are the temps in summer at where you live?

 

[popcan666]

That´s a problem but you should be able to solve it
Just build a cage from wood with 2/3 of one side and the entire top mesh.
How are the temps in summer at where you live?

low 30s high 20s in Celsius

 

[lumbasammler]

Seems like temps are similar to those around here in Germany, where are you from?
This also means you should be well with the wooden cage with 2/3 of one side+ top completely mesh because many people around here have those and it works well.
You need to make sure to make the wood waterproof, e.g. with epoxide resin.
But you´ll have to make sure to use a product which is acceptable to be used with animals.
Example:
http://home.arcor.de/marcus_furtmayr/Bilder/Inhaltsbilder/Cap0003.jpg
The "windows" on the side are covered with mesh.

 

[lindawaz]

Some people use those cages with great success. The height is 4 feet and that is fine for an adult male.

They need drips to drink from. If the cage is not going to be drippy from the Mister you need to run a dripper for them to have running water. Have that Dripper positioned over a plant so it catches the water.

As for overall drainage- I have no idea, paper towels on the bottom to catch the extra , a sea of sponges to take out and let dry. I am sure someone will be along that uses those cages all the time with answers and ideas for you

 

[popcan666]

Seems like temps are similar to those around here in Germany, where are you from?
This also means you should be well with the wooden cage with 2/3 of one side+ top completely mesh because many people around here have those and it works well.
You need to make sure to make the wood waterproof, e.g. with epoxide resin.
But you´ll have to make sure to use a product which is acceptable to be used with animals.
Example:
http://home.arcor.de/marcus_furtmayr/Bilder/Inhaltsbilder/Cap0003.jpg
The "windows" on the side are covered with mesh.

ontario canada

 

[lumbasammler]

Some people use those cages with great success. The height is 4 feet and that is fine for an adult male.

They need drips to drink from. If the cage is not going to be drippy from the Mister you need to run a dripper for them to have running water. Have that Dripper positioned over a plant so it catches the water.

As for overall drainage- I have no idea, paper towels on the bottom to catch the extra , a sea of sponges to take out and let dry. I am sure someone will be along that uses those cages all the time with answers and ideas for you

There are also people who keep Veileds in groups of 5 animals in cages which are way smaller than this in order to produce babies to make profit. You would still not recommend this i guess?
I absolutely underline that veileds need a lot of fresh air to stay healthy so you need to have a well ventilated cage.

 

[pyr]

u can make drain pans out of tupperware containers by cutting most of the plastic lid off and hot gluing window screen to the lid

Other than that u could possibly make a natural drainage by adding soil and potting live plants inside to soak up the water from mister.

 

[fluxlizard]

I'll just toss my opinion in there that extreme caging is largely up to what the owner perceives as best for his/her own animals, rather than the actual needs the animals require to be healthy. If the animal is healthy, the caging works. Quality of life should also be considered, but once the animal shows health and well being (measured by health itself, coloration, behavior, lifespan, etc), quality of life is largely the opinion of the owner.

The idea that some breeders use cages the size of yours to keep harems of a single male and several females to make a profit is absolute non-sense. Veileds may breed when first placed into such a situation, but will not breed or last for long in such a situation, and most will fail to thrive and do very poorly in such a situation. Breeders would not make many babies at all and would quickly loose their breeding stock after investment in the animals and equipment and food if they followed this practice.

It is true that veileds can be kept quite healthy and productive when visually isolated in surprisingly small enclosures. But quality of life should be a consideration. Once health and normal behavior and coloration and lifespan is achieved, quality of life becomes largely the opinion of the keeper. IMO your enclosure is fine for a very good quality of life. It is larger than most forum members use.

The idea that veileds need incredible amounts of ventilation compared to other arboreal lizards to remain healthy is non-sense. Adequate ventilation, yes, the same as any lizard.

There is nothing magical about large cages and unlimited ventilation that suddenly makes a difference between success and failure.

Starting with a healthy animal and then providing proper thermoregulatory options, good lighting and good nutrition are the secrets to success. Adequate space and ventilation is important, but some people take this concept to the extreme. Which is fine, until they start bullying others about it and insisting they must do the same or they are doing something wrong- which is nonsense.

Take your enclosure to a glass shop. They can drill a hole for drainage and you can glue a bit of pvc pipe beneath it, build a special cabinet that your enclosure can sit on and place a 5 gallon bucket in the cabinet below your drainhole to catch runoff. Or you may want to search for a thread here on the forums from last year about the use of glass enclosures. There was a link to an article and some nice photos showing some beautiful enclosures in long-term use and gave ideas. In glass enclosures, usually less water is necessary because humidity is higher which means the lizards dehydrate more slowly. So with careful management, drainage isn't even an issue. 20 years ago I started with and was very successful with glass enclosures and found that a hand misting (get a gallon spray pump at the hardware store) morning and evening along with a 20-30 minute drip into a catch bowl every day was plenty for my chameleons, and did not require extra drainage. I think that is pretty much the standard experience for this type of housing...

 

[fluxlizard]

Oh, and if you have cracks around the front opening doors, and you have a screen top, I think your ventilation will be fine without the computer fan. Especially if you provide an exposed drain hole at the bottom. If you are still worried about it though- you can use a glass shop to add a few ventilation holes around the lower sides just like the drain hole. Combined with ventilation at the top, this would provide good ventilation...

 

[lumbasammler]

Starting with a healthy animal and then providing proper thermoregulatory options, good lighting and good nutrition are the secrets to success. Adequate space and ventilation is important, but some people take this concept to the extreme. Which is fine, until they start bullying others about it.

I didn´t want to "bully" anybody or something.
If it feels like it i thin it´s due to my lack of knowledge of the english language and i´m sorry for that.
I would still recommend a bigger cage as it´s simply better for your cham.
It´s also well known that chameleons need a lot more ventilation than most other lizards.
The size is not the real problem, it´s more the ventilation that i find improper.
The hight of the cage can be compensated well you place it in a high place so your cham is not on eye level.
Why don´t you simply remove one of the sides or the front and cover it with screen?

 

[fluxlizard]

Sorry I may be a little hypersensitive to the issue because I was using glass enclosures with great success in the early 90s and then by the mid-late 90s there was a lot of verbal bullying going on here in the US chameleon community against glass caging. Anyone with a successful experience was pretty much told to shutup and called unethical. It has left me sensitive to the issue.

Well known "facts" in the lizard world are not always facts. Mealworms eating their way out of live lizard stomachs is a good example of a well known fact that is nonsense.

Huge ventilation requirements for chameleons is another.

Here is an interesting read for anyone interested in glass housing:
http:http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

 

[lumbasammler]

Sorry I may be a little hypersensitive to the issue because I was using glass enclosures with great success in the early 90s and then by the mid-late 90s there was a lot of verbal bullying going on here in the US chameleon community against glass caging. Anyone with a successful experience was pretty much told to shutup and called unethical. It has left me sensitive to the issue.

Well known "facts" in the lizard world are not always facts. Mealworms eating their way out of live lizard stomachs is a good example of a well known fact that is nonsense.

Huge ventilation requirements for chameleons is another.

Here is an interesting read for anyone interested in glass housing:
http:http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulAndersonGlass.html

Well maybe i articulated myself badly. I didn´t want to say that it´s impossible to keep chams in glass terrariums.
I just wanted to say that it creates risks that a (part) screen cage does not.
I personally prefer screen cages with 2-3 sides covered with cork, depending on which species is kept inside.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Hello, welcome to the forum If you want a Veiled here is the best caresheet I've found for them (as long as you have a good size viv/cage with good ventilation and the right temps and humidity it doesn't really matter what it's made from) - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
My Wardrarium used to be a wardrobe.......that's a nice cheap way if you have any old furniture lying around, or a good second hand shop......