HELP - Hershel is very sick :(

[Txherp]

He has been sick before with temporal gland infections. I think this may be related but not sure. Here is the previous post on that https://www.chameleonforums.com/temporal-gland-infection-3rd-one-year-87905/

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - Usually rarely but I have to handle him daily now to tube feed him and give him medications.
Feeding - Feeding crickets and discoid roaches. I feed him about 10 insects daily in the morning via cup. Gut loading with cricket crack (for montane species) and fruits, veggies, leafy greens.
Supplements - Use repcal herptivite, calcium, and calcium with D3. I use calcium a couple of times a week and the others once a month
Watering - Misting system (3x daily for 1 minute), I also hand spray once or twice a day. Also have a dripper that drips all day. I do see him drink.
Fecal Description - Brown and white, last poop was lighter colored than usual (probably due to him not eating much). Yes he has been tested for parasites - negative.
History - Yes, temporal gland infections

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen, 18 x 18 x 36"
Lighting - Zoo-med 5.0 long tube light. Lights on from about 7 to 7.
Temperature - basking is 85, floor temp is 75. Overnight it drops a few degrees. I use temp gun and digital thermometer
Humidity - 100 at the highest and 55 at the lowest. I use a digital hygrometer.
Plants - Live plants (umbrella plant, not sure name of other)
Placement - Cage is in spare bedroom. Not near any vents, fan is on in room. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? The top of the cage is a few feet away from ceiling, so pretty high up.
Location - Texas

Current Problem - Color not good. Not eating. Eyes are very swollen. Small swelling on side of face.

He went to the vet last week and was given a vitamin a injection, baytril, and eye drops. He did not improve so he went back to the vet yesterday and was tube fed (he lost 2 grams) and given amikacin for me to administer.

 

[mcbdz]

Poor guy. He looks so sad. Did he completely get over the infections before? What does the vet or you think has caused it? Hope he feels better soon. Sure someone experienced will chime in soon. You may want to PM one of our vet (Dr. O or ferretinmyshoes) to get their opinion on cause or what ever else you need help with. Please keep us updated.

 

[Alexl]

What about the treatments before concerning the temporal gland infection? When was the last infection treatment and what did your vet tell you about recovery? Was there a swab, culturing and resitance test done? Was the mouth carefully checked to assure successfull treatment? Up to date, your chameleon has a problem with its eye (looks like an edema to me, could be an ascented infection, too; could even be a result of a vitamin-A-overdose) and the left lower jaw looks swollen, which would fit into thinking he didn't recover completely yet and the infection could have spread. I think he's immunocompromised as well, maybe from treatment, maybe from keeping conditions. Does your vet knows reptiles and especially chameleons? If I were you, I would definitely want to have a complete checkup of this chameleon, including a very thouroughly look into his mouth, blood count and chemistry to see whether there's still an infection going on and if organ issues were another problem. Further examinations and treatments depend on the results.

About keeping conditions: You fed a lot too much, even for an ill chameleon. This already could be one reason of recurring illness if it has been going on for a year and already damaged organs. Does he still eat anything (even one feeder) on his own or do you forcefeed? Which are the deepest temperatures at night? "Drops a few degrees" could be too less for this species to keep him healthy. Did you offer a winter rest with lower temperatures the last year? In addition (not the most important thing now, just something to say), I would give him some more foliage and branches. What's inside the cage next to him? Can he see other chameleons or reptiles which could stress him aditionally?

 

[Carlton]

Temporal gland infections can and do recurr, but they are also tough to get rid of completely. If the bacteria causing the original infection wasn't eradicated because the wrong antibiotic was used it can become resistant and can spread to the nasal cavities, throat and gums, internal ear, and tissues around the eyes.

 

[rsepiphyte]

Poor thing, i hope you can get him to recover. Be very careful with the amikacin and make sure he is hydrated. This drug is very toxic to the kidneys. Are you dosing every 72 hours? Ruth

 

[Txherp]

Temporal gland infections can and do recurr, but they are also tough to get rid of completely. If the bacteria causing the original infection wasn't eradicated because the wrong antibiotic was used it can become resistant and can spread to the nasal cavities, throat and gums, internal ear, and tissues around the eyes.

That sounds like what has happened. Do you think their is any chance that he will make it through this?

 

[Txherp]

Poor thing, i hope you can get him to recover. Be very careful with the amikacin and make sure he is hydrated. This drug is very toxic to the kidneys. Are you dosing every 72 hours? Ruth

I will try my best to keep him hydrated. I'll try to feed him water through a syringe today since I don't think he is drinking very much. Yes I am giving the amikacin every 72 hours.

 

[Txherp]

What about the treatments before concerning the temporal gland infection? When was the last infection treatment and what did your vet tell you about recovery? Was there a swab, culturing and resitance test done? Was the mouth carefully checked to assure successfull treatment? Up to date, your chameleon has a problem with its eye (looks like an edema to me, could be an ascented infection, too; could even be a result of a vitamin-A-overdose) and the left lower jaw looks swollen, which would fit into thinking he didn't recover completely yet and the infection could have spread. I think he's immunocompromised as well, maybe from treatment, maybe from keeping conditions. Does your vet knows reptiles and especially chameleons? If I were you, I would definitely want to have a complete checkup of this chameleon, including a very thouroughly look into his mouth, blood count and chemistry to see whether there's still an infection going on and if organ issues were another problem. Further examinations and treatments depend on the results.

About keeping conditions: You fed a lot too much, even for an ill chameleon. This already could be one reason of recurring illness if it has been going on for a year and already damaged organs. Does he still eat anything (even one feeder) on his own or do you forcefeed? Which are the deepest temperatures at night? "Drops a few degrees" could be too less for this species to keep him healthy. Did you offer a winter rest with lower temperatures the last year? In addition (not the most important thing now, just something to say), I would give him some more foliage and branches. What's inside the cage next to him? Can he see other chameleons or reptiles which could stress him aditionally?

The vet didn't do a culture, just given antibiotics. His eyes were swollen before the vitamin a injection. My vet knows reptiles well, but I'm not sure how many chameleons he sees.

As I said before, I have been tube feeding him - but only for a couple of days so far.

I have more plants I was going to add to his cage, but since he is so sick I don't want to stress him out. There is a carpet chameleon next to him. I didn't think it was a problem because they have been next to each other for a long time. I will put up a barrier though if you think it could be a problem.

 

[Txherp]

I don't think Hershel is going to make it
I feel just awful, it is my fault that he is sick and I feel like I am torturing him right now with his treatments. I almost feel that I should leave him alone (not give him anymore medication or tube-feeding) and just let him die. I've just finished tubing him and giving his amikacin and I am in tears. He is miserable because of me.

 

[ChameleonMom]

I don't think Hershel is going to make it
I feel just awful, it is my fault that he is sick and I feel like I am torturing him right now with his treatments. I almost feel that I should leave him alone (not give him anymore medication or tube-feeding) and just let him die. I've just finished tubing him and giving his amikacin and I am in tears. He is miserable because of me.

I am so sorry to hear your guy isn't doing well. Please don't ever think you are making him miserable. I prefer to think of how miserable he would be without your love, care, attention and dedication to his health. Please be positive and remain that way until he takes his last breath...even if its tomorrow, or 2 years from now. Dry your tears and please know that your Jackson has had the dedication he deserves. You've done good Momma!

 

[Txherp]

I am so sorry to hear your guy isn't doing well. Please don't ever think you are making him miserable. I prefer to think of how miserable he would be without your love, care, attention and dedication to his health. Please be positive and remain that way until he takes his last breath...even if its tomorrow, or 2 years from now. Dry your tears and please know that your Jackson has had the dedication he deserves. You've done good Momma!

Thank you for the encouragement

 

[mcbdz]

How's He doing today? Hope you see some improvement soon.:

 

[Txherp]

How's He doing today? Hope you see some improvement soon.:

Not good

Barely hanging on to his branch. I moved him to a lower branch in case he falls.

 

[mcbdz]

While he is sick you may need to put him in a hospital encloser. Something smaller with a towel on bottom that would cushion if he fell. Or maybe at least something to cushion if he falls. If he's low in his cage make sure his lights are close enough to help. He needs to be around 8" below the uvb.

 

[jpm995]

Sounds like your doing everything you can, its up to him now, hopefully he can hang on until the meds do their thing. good luck.

 

[Txherp]

While he is sick you may need to put him in a hospital encloser. Something smaller with a towel on bottom that would cushion if he fell. Or maybe at least something to cushion if he falls. If he's low in his cage make sure his lights are close enough to help. He needs to be around 8" below the uvb.

Good idea, I will do that. I was just trying to stress him out as little as possible by not moving him. But stress is better than falling I think.

 

[Txherp]

Sounds like your doing everything you can, its up to him now, hopefully he can hang on until the meds do their thing. good luck.

Thank you, I will keep everybody updated.

 

[Txherp]

Here he is in his hospital tank today. Poor guy

The tubing went better today, not as stressful... on me anyway! Before I fed him he was only holding on to the branches with 3 of his feet and upside down. He is so weak, I'm glad I moved him into a hospital tank.

 

[mcbdz]

glad yall are still hanging in there and fighting the good fight. Thanks for the updates I'm praying yall beat this.

 

[Txherp]

glad yall are still hanging in there and fighting the good fight. Thanks for the updates I'm praying yall beat this.

Thanks you. He is still with us today. Seems to be a little stronger as he is hanging on to his branches upright.