Faly Coloration: a discussion

[drcrossfire]

Please refer to the thread:

Faly Photos-- Variation within a locale --- under general photography.

Please keep the photos/comments along the subject of prominent characteristics and trends throughout the locale. You may make reference to certain line, but please, no attacking people.

Dissenting opinions allowed, but please keep it civil. thanks

Ideas for topics:

Color, structure, variation, fired up vs at rest, age vs color develpment... etc

 

[drcrossfire]

moved from the other thread

I know I missed some sort of big fuss over faly coloration so it's obviously very important to some, but unless you happen to be trying to select for very very specific genetic traits, what's the problem with variation within this locale? I would suggest we know so little about the genetic diversity of any pardalis locale so as to make the debate futile. Frankly, the chams don't really care...they are either attracted to mate with compatible individuals or not regardless how humans classify them. Diversity is a good thing for genetic survival. IMHO they are all beautiful, unique, and the monetary value (except to specialist breeders) of their coloration is less important than their health. I'd never want to produce chams who were identical to each other. Some of you remember the huge furor over those first amazing blue Nosy Be pardalis imports...what's different here?

Good post! Just to add, in addition to what carlton just said. There is variation even in clutchmates. Every faly is not going to be Slash, Raiden quality. Even coming from "high end" breeding pairs. There will be the best looking babies in each clutch that are breeder quality and then the others which arent quite as flashy or dont have the heavy amount of red rain we want etc... Because of the prices being charged for this locale ppl think that every faly is going to color up like Raiden or Slash or like mine "Razr", Or "the Professor". Some will grow up to look similar to the sire but others wont. Now Im not saying they will look ambi or banja but they wont have the rain or they wont have nice clean barrs. Thats the crapshoot of breeding.....

excellent points~!

 

[drcrossfire]

I actually have heard two interesting points that I was wondering if anyone has experience with--

faly's develop a split rostral
WC faly's tend to lost their bright yellow faces

 

[clarkrw3]

I will wait to cross post pictures if this stays civil. We have a LOT of photos over on the Fauna thread and since about page 8 it has stayed civil But many seem to not want to post their animals or their animals offspring.

 

[Texas Ranger]

I actually have heard two interesting points that I was wondering if anyone has experience with--

faly's develop a split rostral
WC faly's tend to lost their bright yellow faces

If you will check fuana we have already started posting pics and talking about the yellow on the face and rostral shape witch has nothing to do with locale.

 

[drcrossfire]

If you will check fuana we have already started posting pics and talking about the yellow on the face and rostral shape witch has nothing to do with locale.

So you're saying that there is no variation in the rostral shape vs locales? I had always heard that the faly's had more prominent rostrals than other locals.

I do not regular fauna.. could you please link it. thanks~

 

[drcrossfire]

well, ideally i just wanted the photo thread... but in order to make it i figured i had to give people an option for discussion on this thread.

Would you guys mind linking some of your photos to the photo thread? They are all gorgeous~

 

[Brad]

We only refer people to fauna's BOI. It was never our intent to move a chameleon discussion to another forum.

 

[Brad]

If we want to have a real discussion about Faly, it should probably begin with a review of what the locale looks like in the wild and its history. Just comparing photos of our own chameleons, who may or may not be pure Faly, does not bring us closer to a true understanding of the issue.

 

[clarkrw3]

We only refer people to fauna's BOI. It was never intended to move a chameleon discussion to another forum.

Sorry Brad! Was trying to keep the Defensive Posturing and mindless banter on another forum I really would LOVE to have an enlightening discussion HERE were it should be....but it's probably going to take a mod with a happy delete finger removing the mindless posts before the whole thread has to be deleted or closed.


Personally I think that to even get into the discussion you should have to post pictures of what you have and/or have produced, so that it's all there to talk about and THEN we can discuss. One of the problems is the people throwing the most punches are the same ones that want to talk without showing what they are working with. It's one thing to just post a bunch of random WC photos and another to post the CB animals you are working with and producing.

 

[Sticktongue]

If we want to have a real discussion about Faly, it should probably begin with a review of what the locale looks like in the wild and its history. Just comparing photos of our own chameleons, who may or may not be pure Faly, does not bring us closer to a true understanding of the issue.

I completely agree with this!

One person has his opinion one what it should look like, so does another, and another. The only way to figure it out is just like Brad said. Pictures of wild caught animals

 

[clarkrw3]

If we want to have a real discussion about Faly, it should probably begin with a review of what the locale looks like in the wild and its history. Just comparing photos of our own chameleons, who may or may not be pure Faly, does not bring us closer to a true understanding of the issue.

I think this is a good idea...And I know where I can grab photos, but since I have never been there they don't belong to me Is anything we can pull up on google fair to post in a thread like this with credit given?

 

[drcrossfire]

Texas Ranger--

How long have you had your WC faly's? If you have had them for a long time, the idea that the yellow fades on all WC can be disregarded

 

[Texas Ranger]

So you're saying that there is no variation in the rostral shape vs locales? I had always heard that the faly's had more prominent rostrals than other locals.

I do not regular fauna.. could you please link it. thanks~

No thats just what some people think you can find variation in rostral shape in all locales my wc falys have the same rostral as my ambanja.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Texas Ranger--

How long have you had your WC faly's? If you have had them for a long time, the idea that the yellow fades on all WC can be disregarded

the fist 2 i have had for over a year and the 3 boy is a wc from screameleons i have hade him for 6 months + he had no yellow in his face when I got him and now it is coming back

 

[drcrossfire]

the fist 2 i have had for over a year and the 3 boy is a wc from screameleons i have hade him for 6 months + he had no yellow in his face when I got him and now it is coming back

Do you feed anything for color enhancement?

 

[clarkrw3]

the fist 2 i have had for over a year and the 3 boy is a wc from screameleons i have hade him for 6 months + he had no yellow in his face when I got him and now it is coming back

LOL..Yep I need some of that You know what I am talking about

 

[Texas Ranger]

Do you feed anything for color enhancement?

I feed what everyone else does but I do make my dry gutload. and I think that and being a faly or ambanja and a nosy be helps to as they all carry the yellow in the face. its just whos is brighter and a good heathy chameleon.
and not to cause drama... in crosses the yollow seems to go away in all the locales if they are mixed.IMO

 

[Brad]

Are there any experts on the locale who don't have a commercial interest in the discussion?

 

[drcrossfire]

I feed what everyone else does but I do make my dry gutload. and I think that and being a faly or ambanja and a nosy be helps to as they all carry the yellow in the face. its just whos is brighter and a good heathy chameleon.
and not to cause drama... in crosses the yollow seems to go away in all the locales if they are mixed.IMO

Crosses aside, you did say that the "color is coming back"--

is there a special color enhancer you feed (in your dry mix) that maybe not everyone uses. Ie- those found in superpig?

Are there any experts on the locale who don't have a commercial interest in the discussion?

Excellent question~

seems like it would be hard to find since those who breed them are the ones that have the most experience with them~