Doing some more research before breeding later this year

[XtremeHobby]

My female panther (about 5 months old now) (pic attached at bottom) is what I want to breed with my male panther (I think he's about a year and a few months, not too sure, pic attached at bottom as well).

I will NOT be breeding until she is at least a year old (in October this year).

I will at some point this year invest in a QUALITY incubator (I'm having a hard time finding a good one and dont trust exo-terras anymore, I am having a hard time getting ahold of them for warranty on it as well and I lost 70 bearded dragon eggs )

Anyways, at what age should I expect her to have an infertile clutch to lay, I've heard as early as 5 months old.

Secondly, if I breed them, what is the average amount of eggs that a panther chameleon will lay? The store that I sell bearded dragons to is more than happy to buy chameleons from me (They've been really good and have bought over 100 bearded dragons from me last year at about $20-$35 each depending on amount sold). They told me they would give me anywhere from $150-$200 per panther chameleon depending on the amount (the more I sell in one go the less they pay per chameleon).

My main concern is, if I breed them and she lays a clutch of eggs, what is a safe timeline to get them to mate again? A few months? I breed for the hobby first a money last (I use the money and profit from breeding the dragons to support all my reptiles, and I use the remaining to pay for my BMW (alot of people at work always wonder how I can afford a BMW at the age of 25 ) and any left over after that goes towards my savings towards a house. But first and foremost the money goes to my reptiles. I've upgraded my male panther to a much larger terrarium that I'm sure he likes alot more.

My main worry with the female is that I don't want her to get egg bound or have any serious issues (or any issues at all) from breeding, I'd feel horrible. I've been doing quite a bit of research on this so far (long before I get them to possibly mate)

Here are the pics, how do they look to you? Think they will make good baby panthers?:

Pictures taken with a Nikon J1. I'd like to add, my female panther is still getting used to me, doesn't really like coming out but will sometimes, I don't have her out long but the male will always come out. Even in the store with the manager (who unfortunately doesn't work there anymore) he told me straight up, just put you'r hand up to the tank, he'll come out to you and he did so I bought him No matter which one of my friends come out the second they go to look at him he will come out from where he's in in the terrarium and come out and walk all over us. He loved climbing the christmas tree when it was up.

I would like to add: The pet store I sell to locally here, I ONLY sell to them, and I know that they take very VERY good care of their reptiles, every single time I go in there (1-2 times per week, sometimes to just talk to the regular employees I know there, who have also been over to my place to check out my reptiles and how I have everything setup) they're either feeding their reptiles (snakes, beardies, geckos, chameleons, etc), misting the appropriate/needed tanks and/or cleaning them. What's even better? They have lots of signs saying don't tap the glass and such, and if a person/kid does, they do tell them to stop immediately. All of their reptiles thrive and are happy and healthy and its not a random reptile store its a large chain in Canada. I thought I would mention this because some people think they aren't being taken care of when they hear I sell to a local pet store chain. They've also gotten good feedback on the bearded dragon's health (the ones I sell them). They tell me this because I ask them to talk to their customers and let me know if there are any issues.

Just the other day when I sold a small batch of beardies they were desperately in need of (people requesting them) I brought in a few and I had customers asking if I am the supplier/breeder of their bearded dragons and I told them I am but I may not be the only one (but at the moment I am their only beardie supplier since I charge them the lowest and their other breeder didn't care about the health and charged more) but I am one of them and about 6 of them were asking questions about it but I couldn't stick around as I had things to do.

Male:
(Eating a very very juicy horned worm, I had to wipe its juices off the glass lol, it sprayed everywhere after the second bite




Female:

 

[jannb]

Welcome to the forums. First I'd like to say that I would never sale my babies to any pet store. Even if the pet store took good care of them they sale them to anyone with money and we see many die on here from pet stores. Females can lay as early as 5 months if you over feed them, keep them too warm or just seeing a male can cause them to start forming a clutch. Often females don't lay a clutch until 14 to 17 months old and some never lay a clutch at all.

They can lay as few as 13 or 14 eggs and as many as 30 something depending how much you feed them and how warm you keep them. Every clutch they lay shortens their life. I would not recommend breeding more than once a year and not before the age of one and at a good weight and not past 3 years old.

Are you keeping your male in a glass tank? Most here in the US use a screen cage for veileds and panthers.

I have a few links for your below. The first is about general care with a section and a very important link about the females. The second is about egg laying and the laying bin. At 5 months old she should have a laying bin in her cage at all times. The third link is about breeding.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html#comment1143
https://www.chameleonforums.com/some-thoughts-breeding-2612/

 

[thephotoprincess]

Your female is just gorgeous!!

A female can lay two or three clutches from one mating so breeding once a year seems about right. (I haven't bred panthers but I have bred veileds and others.)

Both of them look healthy and since you are doing your research I think you will be successful.

 

[MamaD]

Always happy to see people making sure to be well informed and educated before attempting to breed! Good job! I have been breeding Panthers and Veileds for about 2yrs now. I must agree that I would never sell to pet store for the following reasons: they are not very skilled in the care of these animals therefore, not able to pass on the correct info to buyers. Also, I prefer to sell direct to buyers so that I am sure they get as much info as possible to care for these beautiful and sometimes delicate creatures.

Now is a crucial time to provide her with a laying bin so that as soon as she is ready to lay, she has it to avoid becoming egg bound. I use a plastic container about 10-12" deep. Drill several small holes in the bottom to allow for drainage. Use a mixture of 1/2 play sand and 1/2 organic soil. Too much sand can have the potential to collapse on her as she is digging. Keep the mixture moist...not too wet or dry. Place the laying bin towards the back of her cage to give her the privacy she needs to lay where she feels safe to lay. I also wrap fake leaves around a dowel rod and place it around the side of the bin facing the front of the cage.

As for incubation and egg care. I use a plastic rectangular container with a lid that is about 3-5" deep. Purchase vermiculite which can be found at any Home Depot or garden center. Vermiculite will hold moisture very well for the eggs to have proper humidity as they incubate. Again, moist not wet as too much moisture will kill your eggs. Check the container frequently and use a paper towel to remove any sweat that may form on the inner lid. If the vermiculite seems too dry, add a few drops of water here and there but be sure to NEVER pour water directly on eggs and NEVER spray with water. I keep mine in a small cabinate that is used only for eggs. Keeping the temp at 72-75 degrees is actually perfect. I am not talking you out of an incubator at all. That is all your personal preference. Try checking out ZooMed for one. Not sure if they carry them but can't hurt to check.

My females lay an average of 18-20 eggs per clutch. I only breed them a couple times a year as they are a little more delicate than some other female chameleon breeds. Breeding them too often will shorten their life span significantly. Always a great idea to give them a couple infertile clutches before you begin to breed. At this point she still needs all the vitamins and nutrients for her to finish growing and to promote her proper bone growth. Carrying a fertile clutch will send all vitamins and nutrients to the growing babies and not to her.

I wish you the best of luck in your breeding and hope I have helped out.

 

[XtremeHobby]

Thanks guys.

I knew most of you guys here would not approve of selling to a pet store

I will say straight out, there have been cases where they won't sell to certain people. They asked me (when I bought my first one) how often I go on vacation: Never and various other questions and they wouldn't sell to me unless I was around alot to care for it.

They give a 30-day health gauruntee on it but if you have a reptile die and take it back they'll know if it was negligence or not.


Either way, I would rather sell chameleons privately as well but this pet store treats me well, gives me almost all feeders at cost, etc.