Corpsman82
New Member
so what are your guys views on cross breeding panther chams?
Cross breeding panthers?
- Thread starter Corpsman82
- Start date
codiwatkins
New Member
If only you knew what you just started.
Come on guys I know yall are sooooooo ready to argue this out for the next week!
Come on guys I know yall are sooooooo ready to argue this out for the next week!
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
I have seen some beeeeeeeautiful crosses, but unless you have an excellent reputation, you'll have a hard time getting rid of the offspring. I personally would never cross a locale.
Corpsman82
New Member
ive seen some really cool looking crosses as well.
but im a little mixed on the topic myself.
as far as selling em goes... im not too intereted in it.
im not going to be starting a chameleon mill or anything of the sort. at most id keep 2 females and and get a clutch out of each one, once a year. then give em away to friends/family.
i do know its important to keep the locals pure, so in 50 years from now we still have several several locals. instead of just panther chameleons.
however i would like to see the turn out of mixing a few different ones.
edit* dident know this was such a debated topic.
but im a little mixed on the topic myself.
as far as selling em goes... im not too intereted in it.
im not going to be starting a chameleon mill or anything of the sort. at most id keep 2 females and and get a clutch out of each one, once a year. then give em away to friends/family.
i do know its important to keep the locals pure, so in 50 years from now we still have several several locals. instead of just panther chameleons.
however i would like to see the turn out of mixing a few different ones.
edit* dident know this was such a debated topic.
Corpsman82
New Member
eh i actually did what i should have done before i hit the new thread button.....use the "search" button. i def saw alot more valid points of some things i dident consider.
new question.
now how about the amilobe red bar/blue bar would that be considered cross breeding?
new question.
now how about the amilobe red bar/blue bar would that be considered cross breeding?
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
That's not considered crossing, no. That's just variation within Ambilobe
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
So you have about 50 or 60 buddies you can give them away to?
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
There are many people who buy chameleons as pets only, and do not care if it is a hybrid or about pure breeding. Ive never had trouble finding GOOD homes for chameleons, regardless of being pure breeds or crosses. Those who are fanatical about pure breeds will check the sources and pay more to ensure they get it, or import. Those who care less, will buy what they like.
that said, breeding shouldnt be untaken lightly.
that said, breeding shouldnt be untaken lightly.
Corpsman82
New Member
Actually yea I do I'm in the military it would be very easy.
Zen Reptiles
Avid Member
An hour on one cham? lol
I have about 30 animals and I spend about an hour a day on them, usually a lot less.
One cham shouldn't take you more than 5-10 mins/day total unless you obsess over it.
Misting 20 seconds x 5
Feeding 30 seconds x1 or 2
Cleaning 10 seconds
So we are at 3 minutes there?
What do you do for the other 57mins lol
Unless you have a koi pond in his tank and bonsai trees that need daily pruning.
I have about 30 animals and I spend about an hour a day on them, usually a lot less.
One cham shouldn't take you more than 5-10 mins/day total unless you obsess over it.
Misting 20 seconds x 5
Feeding 30 seconds x1 or 2
Cleaning 10 seconds
So we are at 3 minutes there?
What do you do for the other 57mins lol
Unless you have a koi pond in his tank and bonsai trees that need daily pruning.
summoner12
Avid Member
will buy what they like and not know they shouldn't mate a cross......
My big issue with crosses is that people who aren't responsible end up with them and breed them or sell them without knowing the entire story of the cross.... I think people who sell cross breeds should send the cham with a sheet explaining what they just purchased...... cause the people who want a pet either end up not wanting it and forgetting the entire story behind the cham or just don't say what it is just to move the cham....
plus it's been shown that cross breeds from some breeders don't do well... have weird issues and such.....
I don't agree with it at all, just for the sake of keeping things clean and straight in the hobby.
Pure
New Member
If your not experienced, crosses can very easily be not so pretty. It takes some knowledge of the genetics behind the locals to know how to mix them and have a desirable result.
And as Kev pointed out, some crosses have had issues. It has yet to be genetically determined if these issues arise because these locals that are crossed, are actually so genetically different that they indeed could be considered different sub species, if not different species all together. Genetic differences are often the result of a millennia of geographical separation. This geographic separation, is pretty much what has happened to some of the locals on Madagascar.
There are 2 species of snake in South America. Damned if I can remember the name. But they've been genetically tested and proven to be linked to one species that was present prior to the Andes Mountains forming. Once they formed they separated 2 groups of this species and the end result was 2 genetically different species. That if bred together results in sterile offspring due to hybridization.
edit: final thought. What I'm getting at is, you need to proceed with caution if you ever intend to breed crosses, and be prepared to cull a whole batch if they don't turn out well.
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graydon
New Member
I say an hour but in reality its probly more like half an hour. The time it takes me to get from my room down to where the cham is, it takes around 3 min up and down, then multiply that times 3 or 4. My cham is living out doors in florida. Temps can reach above 90 sometimes so he needs a lot more water than misting for 20 seconds. More like 3 min x 4. Then you need to take account your feeders. Replacing gutload and water crystals takes time as well. Then you add the cleaning process. Now we are up to about half an hour. I also like to spend as much time as possible around my cham and in return, he realizes im not a threat so he doesn't hesitate to come out of his cage.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Brock, Just 20 seconds misting? gosh that seems quite inadequate? do you also have drippers I hope?
cleaning only 10 seconds? that must not include a good bi-weekly cleanout or at least monthly? or do you really not clean?
Less than an hour on 30 animals? Whats the point in having pets if you dont spend any time around them?
I probably spend about an hour a day on chameleons and related activies (multiple chameleons, multiple types of bug breeding colonies). I cant imagine how I could have chameleons and be in the military or any other job with prolonged absences from home, unless I had family memebers equally interested and sharing the work. My pet sitter is great for vacations, but I wouldnt rely on her for months at a time.
cleaning only 10 seconds? that must not include a good bi-weekly cleanout or at least monthly? or do you really not clean?
Less than an hour on 30 animals? Whats the point in having pets if you dont spend any time around them?
I probably spend about an hour a day on chameleons and related activies (multiple chameleons, multiple types of bug breeding colonies). I cant imagine how I could have chameleons and be in the military or any other job with prolonged absences from home, unless I had family memebers equally interested and sharing the work. My pet sitter is great for vacations, but I wouldnt rely on her for months at a time.
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sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
There is no reason not to mate a cross, so long as one is very clear to the buyer that they are buying a cross/mutt.
I believe true Problems with hybrids are almost unheard of, and that there are equally problems with "pure" breeds as well. And really its not like the "pure" breeds in North America are the same as those in Madagascar (unless there is recent import blood) as we tend to keep and breed the ones that "look best" to us or are most marketable, we dont breed for what works well in the original native environment.
Like I said, people who want pure go to lengths to buy pure. Those that dont give a rats bottom about purity are simply happy to have an interesting lizard pet.
But most of the people I have sold to (pure or hybrid) are not going to breed. For them the Chameleon is a pet, and they're less interested in breeding it than their family dog or cat or hamster, which is to say not at all. Breeding is not something a reasonable person gets in to lightly.
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Corpsman82
New Member
most jobs in the military are 7-4 jobs or (0700-1600) mon-fri. in fact i bet i have more time off then any civilian working a full time job lets see, 30 days paid vacation (each year and you can stack it up) and every holiday off....hell i got 2 extre days off for columbus day. and as far as getting deployed goes as crazy of a thought it may be....we take care of each other!!!! its very common to watch some ones pet for 6 months +
time is def not a issue with me. and even if i did get deployed id just make my fiancee take care of my chams.
summoner12
Avid Member
And my GF thinks I am crazy for trying to move my computer back into the new cham room
The point of having them is to watch them.... When I am home I am on my computer.... so why not be in the same room to watch them? My 'space' has always been surrounded by my chams... i can't imagine not being with them... it is the only way to see some of the funny business they do or to see if they are healthy or whatever. They require a lot of time and observation. My fears are a exaggerated a little bit... But what I imagine happening most is someone buying a cross.... only remembering the part where the person said 'ambilobe' and then selling it to someone who wants an ambilobe for a pet or to breed and then that animal ends up in a breeding project. A breeder wouldn't do this... but someone new or just wanting to try to breed might not go all out for 'pure'
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