Cham type for greenhouse?

[celloyogi]

I'm considering getting a chameleon but doing *a ton* of homework first. I have two greenhouses and was considering using those as a free-range environments.

Greenhouse #1: Apx. 40ft long x 15ft wide. Roof is angled along the long side from 8ft to about 12ft high. It is built in against a brick-sided building. The greenhouse has a concrete floor, built-in galvanized mesh benches going the length of the building on each outer wall, down the middle and on one short end. One door opens to the attached building, one to the outside. Automatic vents & fans. There is an automatic watering system that is not used because it is more of a misting system and in the past resulted in rotted plants (I don't think I'd even use it for chams). This greenhouse currently is used for growing all sorts of veggies, cutting flowers, and houses some tropical plants (banana tree, palms, crown of thorns, philodendrons). Daytime temps in summer can be 75-95F depending on outside; temps in winter never drop below 60F due to supplemental heating. Not sure about humidity - plants/entire structure are heavily watered daily using a spray hose and it is pretty packed with plants. I already have a small herd of green anoles free-ranging there that seem happy - they eat all the bugs and get supplemental feeding.

Greenhouse #2: Apx. 15ft long x 8ft wide x 8ft high. Attached to my house. Door opens to outside; sliding glass window opens to my dining room . Greenhouse is solely used for orchid propagation and is like a mini-rainforest. Kept quite humid, misters on periodically throughout the day for about 60-80% levels. Temps maintained year-round between 70-80F. Automatic vents & fans. Built-in galvanized mesh benches along each long wall. Numerous glass shelves along each wall. Wood plank aisle, gravel under benches. Most every surface is covered with orchids, and many orchids hang from the ceiling. Watered daily; all my phrags are kept in saucers filled with water but I think these would be difficult to access by any cham (they'd have to work to get down there).

I am willing to make accommodations so these greenhouses are more comfortable for any chams. I already have basking lamps, UV lights, and access to other types of automatic misting systems. If I have plants that are inappropriate in the larger greenhouse, I can move them or screen off a section. IOW, if I can make the place hospitable I will, and if I can't, I won't put a cham in there. I'd been considering a veiled or panther - my only only concern with the veiled is if they eat my orchids (so they'd only be going in #1).

Opinions? Comments? I'd appreciate any advice!

 

[gpmo]

We have a couple members that have green houses. I don't so not really sure so hopefully one of them will pipe in. Do you have anoles running in the second greenhouse?

Good luck with your hunt, i am sure someone with this kindof experience will pop in soon.

Gpmo (him

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Greenhouses are great places for chameleons if they can provide for everything your chameleons requires. Make sure they have appropriate UV lighting for reptile requirements.

If your greenhouse is at 70% humidity with daytime temperatures between 70 and 85F I would recommend a panther chameleon. However if the temperatures are over 85F and the humidity is lower than 70% I would recommend a veiled (Species type really depends on what conditions you have inside your greenhouse). As well if you buy a veiled chameleon make sure all your free range plants are non toxic as veileds regularly consume large amounts of plant matter and be prepared to move all the plants that you do not want the veiled to take a bit out. One major concern for what ever species you eventually choose make certain that when your chameleons free range they cannot access electrical, propane heater or any other hazards that could harm or kill them. I had a free range exhibit with panther chameleon for about 6 years and it was great. If your going to go free range for your greenhouse make sure you consider everything that can have an effect on your chameleon.

I would also buy a feed out cage if your going to go with a free range arrangement as 50 crickets scattered in a greenhouse is going to be difficult for your chameleon to successfully hunt and cost more then an hour or two in a feed out cage.

I would recommend making pathways out of bamboo tied to larger trees to allow what ever chameleon you choose to cruise around the greenhouse all day long. I'm going to post pictures of my greenhouse soon and I would recommend checking my greenhouse thread out.

 

[celloyogi]

Do you have anoles running in the second greenhouse

I did for many years, then four years ago we had a power outage for two days when I was out of town during January and the freezing temps took out the anoles and a fair number of my plants. That very spring we installed a generator that is (seriously) about the size of a cargo van and runs everything in the greenhouse and the human house. We also put in back-up heaters that auto switch on if the primary heaters fail for any reason. I felt absolutely horrible about the anoles but in those two days lost about $2K of orchid cultures, so I'm not taking any chances now! I haven't put any anoles back in because I've been debating starting a population of something else and don't want any avoidable clashing.

 

[celloyogi]

If your greenhouse is at 70% humidity with daytime temperatures between 70 and 85F I would recommend a panther chameleon. However if the temperatures are over 85F and the humidity is lower than 70% I would recommend a veiled (Species type really depends on what conditions you have inside your greenhouse). As well if you buy a veiled chameleon make sure all your free range plants are non toxic as veileds regularly consume large amounts of plant matter and be prepared to move all the plants that you do not want the veiled to take a bit out.

How much plant matter would an adult veiled consume (ballpark)? I've considered just screening off one section of the larger greenhouse for a free-range area so I can concentrate on cham-proofing that area without completely rearranging the whole place. At least in the larger structure, I've already done a fair amount of anole-proofing so I don't think I'd need to do *too* much there. The little amount of electrical work there was done "mil-spec" by a EE family member, which means it's completely inaccessible to anyone but him (watertight, too).

I would also buy a feed out cage if your going to go with a free range arrangement as 50 crickets scattered in a greenhouse is going to be difficult for your chameleon to successfully hunt and cost more then an hour or two in a feed out cage.

The anoles have 6 dish platforms in the big greenhouse. All are at least 2ft off the surface of the benches, and spread the length of the building. The anoles picked up on the buffet-style very quickly. Would something like this work for chams?

Thanks for your advice! I appreciate it.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Veileds can eat quite a bit of vegitation. Run a search here on these forums and you should be able to find out a lot information about their herbivory on plants.

If you have already got a way to feed in a free range exhibit that is great, it something to consider is you have not already got an arrangement. When you have got your greenhouse free range done post some picturtes if you don't mind.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Something to consider once you have got some experience with true chameleons you may want to consider a couple other chameleons for a free range exhibit. I would recommend a colony of Mellers or maybe a pair of Oustaleti chameleons. In your first greenhouse you would certainly have the space and many people on these forums have got experience with these other species whom you could consult.

 

[tkilgour]

Your are very lucky to have greenhouses!

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I obsessed over owning a greenhouse ever since I saw my first one being used for chameleons in 1994. Then in 2002 my family and I chipped in and acquired one and I have been living a dream ever since. Like chamelisa has stated I spend a lot of time in the greenhouse every day. Simply stated if you want to go a notch above just a normal keeper for something a bit grander, I highly recommend researching a greenhouse for your chameleon hobby.

 

[chameleonoobie]

I would wonder about a greenhouse having a good exchange of air, but I guess the plants do o.k. with fans and it sounds like a huge room. I kept a jacksons in a three by three well planted cage and thought the thing had escaped almost every time I tried to see it, I never saw an animal so good at conceling itself in plain sight. I wonder if you would be able to monitor your chameleon in a greenhouse full of plants? Sounds like a dream set up for most of us though.

 

[celloyogi]

I would wonder about a greenhouse having a good exchange of air, but I guess the plants do o.k. with fans and it sounds like a huge room. I kept a jacksons in a three by three well planted cage and thought the thing had escaped almost every time I tried to see it, I never saw an animal so good at conceling itself in plain sight. I wonder if you would be able to monitor your chameleon in a greenhouse full of plants? Sounds like a dream set up for most of us though.

I don't know about other greenhouses, but at least in mine, air circulation is a primary concern. With the orchids, a high temp and high humidity pretty much demand a good air flow unless I want to start manufacturing my own antibiotics, too. It's similar with the vegetables, although my veggie greenhouse is large enough, with vents on 3 sides and the roof, that the fans rarely kick in due to excess heat/humidity.

When I started keeping anoles in the greenhouses, I would try to count them every time I was in there just to make sure there were no escapees. Eventually I gave up - they never escaped but it sometimes took me an hour to locate all of them. In the large greenhouse they've multipled a few times over and I honestly have no idea how many I have anymore, probably between 30 and 40. I wouldn't know they were breeding except every now and then I see a new teensy tiny one running around. I'm planning on limiting the cham's ranging area somewhat, so at least I'll have a limited space to review. And unlike the anoles, who have complete freedom in the place, I'm going to put measures in place to prevent the cham from going in 'off-limits' places, mainly anywhere near the vents, fan, or heater - they're all enclosed in tight mesh to prevent anoles from getting injured, but I wouldn't want the cham making any attempt to climb those things, either.

I'm figuring another 2-3 months of planning and structure modification and hopefully I'll be the proud parent of a new cham. Very excited.

 

[celloyogi]

Something to consider once you have got some experience with true chameleons you may want to consider a couple other chameleons for a free range exhibit. I would recommend a colony of Mellers or maybe a pair of Oustaleti chameleons. In your first greenhouse you would certainly have the space and many people on these forums have got experience with these other species whom you could consult.

Would one of these other types of cham species you mentioned get along with a panther or veiled? I wouldn't want clashing if I added later; from my (limited) experience with other reptiles I understand it quite difficult to combine in a habitat. I'm assuming my anoles won't pose a problem as they ignore pretty much everything except food.

I'll definitely look into the other species. Always good to learn more.

 

[zwhitman]

Both of the greenhouses you mentioned could work for chams. In the small greenhouse my concern would be the the chams will damage your orchids. A free range cham will explore EVERY inch of its environment, and any of the large species mentioned would seem like they could easily break your orchids. If you do want chams in with your orchids, I would look at smaller species, like maybe jacksons. Any time you free range such small chams, it comes with its own risks. They are fairly easy to loose, or accidentally hurt as you move stuff about the room.

The larger greenhouse sounds like it will work better for bigger chams. They will quickly pick up on any feeding areas that you currently use. The only concern here is how much you like your anoles. any of the large chams will be quite happy to eat anoles. If you have tons of breeding anoles, they can probably withstand some predation, but you will loose some. If you decide that you do like your anoles too much to have them be snacks, there are many other interesting small species of herps that are compatible. (Numerous geckos, small lizards, and even frogs)

Separating an area for chams may be the easiest, and safest way to go.

The biggest thing is just to think about the requirements of a chameleon. If you can maintain the correct temps and humidity for the species you are interested in, your greenhouses will make them very happy.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Would one of these other types of cham species you mentioned get along with a panther or veiled? I wouldn't want clashing if I added later; from my (limited) experience with other reptiles I understand it quite difficult to combine in a habitat. I'm assuming my anoles won't pose a problem as they ignore pretty much everything except food.

I'll definitely look into the other species. Always good to learn more.

I would recommend going with just one species per free range area. Keeping colonies (Jacksons possibly a trio Mellers one male and a couple females) and multiple species in one free range can be done however it is risky and a gamble that should only be attempted if you are confident and carefully monitor your chameleons.