Calling all experts! Tips on great starter species!

ScalesTailsandClaws

ScalesTailsandClaws

New Member
I run the educational reptile business Scales Tails and Claws. During EVERY show, a child or adult will ask me if I have a chameleon, or even ask me if my iguanas are chameleons. Everybody loves chameleons! (Including me!) I would love to hear some of your expert opinions (You don't need letters before your name to be an expert) as to what species would be best for me.

I am looking for a long lived, medium-large sized animal that is not incredibly difficult to care for and can TOLERATE some mild handling for short periods of time. I know these lizards don't LIKE to be held, but for shows it is necessary that they are picked up for maybe five minutes. I have experience with other somewhat difficult animals, such as my iguanas, tegu, and reticulated python. I already have an established breeding colony of Dubia roaches which I use for feeders for all my insect eating animals including spiderling tarantulas and adult bearded dragons. I have enough money to purchase an appropriate screen cage, heating elements (I'll probably use a mercury vapor,) cage furnishings including live plants, and quite possibly a Mist King. I can also slightly raise the ambient room humidity and ambient room temperature is about 75 degrees F. I use an infrared temperature gun to take readings.

The species I'm currently looking into are Veilds, Jackson's and Panthers. There is a small male Jackson's available at a trusted pet store that I can obtain, but I will willingly purchase online or from these forums if needed. I will also be attending the Colombia SC repticon in March. My local pet store can also obtain veilds and panthers as well as additional jackson's,

I will definitely be buying a male chameleon, and preferably one between the ages of 6 months to 2 years, but I can be flexible. Male is a must.

You experts out there, would any of the listed species tolerate mild handling? I know specific personality comes in to play a lot, so I'm talking about in general. I want a good beginners species as I've never owned a chameleon before, but keep in mind I have TONS of reptile experience and can handle a reasonable challenge. Anything I should know? Or is a chameleon just not right for me? Feel free to post anything at all that could be useful. After all, I'm new to YOUR forums.

Thanks for your time! Feel free to PM me.

Danny Sternfeld
 
Each species has its own enchanting feature.. but I believe that your best bet is a panther. Veileds can be very angry when adults so it isnt a species that I would suggest if you want to handle a lot. there are exceptions, but it depends on the animal. I would suggest panthers because they are not very difficult to take care of and are just incredible to look at. I would not buy from a local pet store because of the increased risk you take with the possibility of parasites.

I would suggest you take a look at the site sponsors and see the wide variety of panthers that are available.. you'll have a hard time choosing.
 
Thanks for the quick response! I already know of some of the different types of panthers available, and love the BB ambilobe. Expensive (not compared to some other Chameleons, of course,) but worth it. I will look into a panther for sure. Any other suggestions? You didn't even mention Jackson's. Are they not a good candidate or do you just have no experience with them?
 
I have kept a number of species over the years and based on my personal experience and your needs I would definitely not get a veiled. Adult individuals and males in particular may be too aggressive for your educational needs. Panthers are so gorgeous that it is hard not to get them, Jackson's look like mini-dinosaurs and kids are really drawn to them. I think either species would be good especially if you get a young captive bred specimen and get them used to some handling early on.
 
ScalesTailsandClaws said:
Thanks for the quick response! I already know of some of the different types of panthers available, and love the BB ambilobe. Expensive (not compared to some other Chameleons, of course,) but worth it. I will look into a panther for sure. Any other suggestions? You didn't even mention Jackson's. Are they not a good candidate or do you just have no experience with them?
Click to expand...

I have had some experience with them, but they are just not as flashy as the other two. They are also quite small. They are another easy species to take care of, but with different requirements than veileds and panthers.

I would suggest, for your purpose, an Ambilobe since they are more of the rainbow color. They are probably the most common locale of panthers, which probably will give you a lower price. Another very nice locale, probably one of my favorites, is Ambanja.
you can see my high end ambanja here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/new-baby-finally-here-70560/


If you want a very nice chameleon, I would suggest you go the the Kammerflage Kreations page and get a baby from Son Tiger. A friend of mine, who is also part of this forum, got one last month and it is incredible for being only a few months old. He is an ambilobe. You can see him here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-new-cham-chance-one-hell-homewward-bound-trip-70989/
In the last pages you'll see him how he is now.


And for some nice reading about the care of chameleons (Panthers and veileds) for new owners, here is a blog from one of the members:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
 
VeiledChams said:
Each species has its own enchanting feature.. but I believe that your best bet is a panther. Veileds can be very angry when adults so it isnt a species that I would suggest if you want to handle a lot. there are exceptions, but it depends on the animal. I would suggest panthers because they are not very difficult to take care of and are just incredible to look at. I would not buy from a local pet store because of the increased risk you take with the possibility of parasites.

I would suggest you take a look at the site sponsors and see the wide variety of panthers that are available.. you'll have a hard time choosing.
Click to expand...

well even though i debate that the better thing about panthers is just there colors for veileds its there casque but ALL chameleons have there OWN personalities for example i had a female veiled who i trained to walk out of her cage eat out of the cup that was outside of her cage and walked back in when she was done she was the sweetest veiled EVER!!! but check out flchams.com
 
Thanks! Okay, the "Competition" is now between the Panther Chameleon, and the Jackson's! I've heard that the second is easier to care for because it requires a smaller set up and lower temperatures, making it easier to provide adequate humidity. Which species lives longer in general? And are either of those two easier to handle? I agree, children would be more drawn toward a dinosaur looking lizard such as the Jackson's. Also, saving money buy purchasing the Jackson's would allow for a slightly nicer cage set up, although I will make sure that if I purchase either I will be sure to make the cage more than "enough."
 
ScalesTailsandClaws said:
Thanks! Okay, the "Competition" is now between the Panther Chameleon, and the Jackson's! I've heard that the second is easier to care for because it requires a smaller set up and lower temperatures, making it easier to provide adequate humidity. Which species lives longer in general? And are either of those two easier to handle? I agree, children would be more drawn toward a dinosaur looking lizard such as the Jackson's. Also, saving money buy purchasing the Jackson's would allow for a slightly nicer cage set up, although I will make sure that if I purchase either I will be sure to make the cage more than "enough."
Click to expand...

I would not agree on the care being easier. If anything, I'd say that Jackson's are a little more difficult because they are a montane species that can be quite sensitive to excess supplements. They require much more water, but yes, the temperatures are lower. A well taken care of panther will outlive a Jackson (T.j. xantholophus is the subspecies most available in the pet trade).. Most jacksons you'll find are WC, but there are some CB.. I would definitely buy a captive bred one. Both depend on their personality if they like to be handled..luck of the draw.
The difference in cage size is really not much for an adult jackson and a panther. an adult Jackson will require an 18x18x36 cage and an adult panther will require at least a 24x24x48 cage.. the price difference is about $20.
 
VeiledChams said:
I have had some experience with them, but they are just not as flashy as the other two. They are also quite small. They are another easy species to take care of, but with different requirements than veileds and panthers.

I would suggest, for your purpose, an Ambilobe since they are more of the rainbow color. They are probably the most common locale of panthers, which probably will give you a lower price. Another very nice locale, probably one of my favorites, is Ambanja.
you can see my high end ambanja here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/new-baby-finally-here-70560/


If you want a very nice chameleon, I would suggest you go the the Kammerflage Kreations page and get a baby from Son Tiger. A friend of mine, who is also part of this forum, got one last month and it is incredible for being only a few months old. He is an ambilobe. You can see him here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-new-cham-chance-one-hell-homewward-bound-trip-70989/
In the last pages you'll see him how he is now.


And for some nice reading about the care of chameleons (Panthers and veileds) for new owners, here is a blog from one of the members:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html
Click to expand...

For now, I don't need a SUPER looking chameleon as much as I need the animal itself for educational use. Sure, pretty is great, but I would love practically priced for my first Chameleon. I know I'll end up getting a panther someday... they're so pretty.... I'm not saying that Panthers are over priced, but they're like buying a Ferrari to drive to the grocery store once a week. Overkill compared to my needs. ;) Now, I can afford this animal if it will indeed be a better animal to use in my shows such as being more tolerant of handling and living longer, but if either will do I'd like to go less expensive for my first.
 
I agree with Chameleonman - each cham has a different personality. Even within the same species you can see a lot of variation. Jackson's do require smaller enclosures than panthers and in my experience, kids are more drawn to them because of the horns. That said, they will never be as impressive as a fired up ambilobe. I have both species and can't stop watching all of them!
 
I'll get a CB animal no matter what. All of my animals are CB, except for my Indonesian White's tree frog. It's so hard to choose between these two species! I posted the thread expecting to see "Veild!" all over the place and just wanting to consult some experienced collectors. It's exciting to get good feedback. :) I keep thinking that I'll just suck up the price difference and get a Panther, but then I go back and think "What about the kids relating to the horns on the cheaper Jackson's?" I'll just have to get one now, and then one later. I think I'll start with a.... Oh my.... XD
 
I will someday. Heck, someday I'll get a Veiled too. I just don't have the funds right this moment to $325- $350 of lizards and then another couple hundred on caging. I'll have to spread it out. So now, experience wise, which would you recommend to a beginner first? A Jackson's or a Panther? Please especially focus on ease of care.
 
From what I have read and experienced, panthers tolerate more the mishaps of a new owner. Jacksons and other montanes are more sensitive.
Jacksons require much more water, but if you are getting a mistking, you'll be fine. Supplementation will be less for jacksons, and over supplementation can happen very easily.

Here's a very small compilation of bits and things of how to care for a jackson (dont mind the location and other obvious things that regard me):


Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon – Jacksonii Adult
• Feeding - Types of insects should include: crickets, super worms (Zoophobas), regular meal worms (tenibrio), butter worms, wax worms, roaches, grasshoppers, snails and the common house fly. All gutloaded with fresh vegetables (spinach, carrot, alfalfa, sweet potatoe,etc. I use Sandra’s (Sandrachameleon) blog on gutloading), Flukers gutload, Flukers water cubes.
• Supplements – Rep-cal W/O D3 every feeding, W/ D3 once a month and herptivite once a month
• Watering – Dripper for most of the day, misting 2-3 times a day.

Cage Info:
• Cage Type – Screen, at least 24X18X24” (Bigger is always better)
• Lighting – Reptisun 5.0, plus basking light to provide a 80-85°F basking spot.
• Temperature – Montane species, hailing from a climate of temperate days (74° - 80°F) and cool nights (57° - 65°F). A night time drop of 10°-15° is recommended to stimulate your pet's appetite. A basking area of 76°-80°F is desirable for a few hours daily, if the ambient temperature seldom rises above 70°F. Please note that a constant or minimal variation in temperature will eventually compromise the chameleon's health. Extended periods of cool nights, without the benefit of warm periods during daytime, may result in respiratory disease. Excessive daytime temperatures, however, will result in heat stress and gaping mouth. Temperatures more than 90°F, for any significant period, will prove to be fatal.
• Humidity – Higher humidity that Veileds as Jacksonii are a Montane species. I run a cold air humidifier in my chameleon room.
• Plants – Schefflera Arboricola
• Placement – Chameleon room, across from female C. Calyptratus and female F. Pardalis
• Location – South Florida
 
ScalesTailsandClaws said:
I will someday. Heck, someday I'll get a Veiled too. I just don't have the funds right this moment to $325- $350 of lizards and then another couple hundred on caging. I'll have to spread it out. So now, experience wise, which would you recommend to a beginner first? A Jackson's or a Panther? Please especially focus on ease of care.
Click to expand...

They have different requirements but they are both fairly easy to keep. You need to research the specific needs of a species no matter what, so if cost is an important factor in making your decision I would go with a Jackson's. The problem of over supplementation is easily overcome by gutloading your feeders (there are also gut load mixes formulated for montane species) and providing a varied diet.
 
Thanks for the info. I will be feeding roaches which are already fed a specific high protein high nutrient roach chow, but can also feed them some veggies prior to feeding. I may do a mist king, depending on what my ambient humidity is after I add a room humidifier and mist by hand 3 times daily.... I'll still probably do a mist king. I can obtain a suitable sized screen cage at a local pet store, but they don't carry the full sized 24x24x48 that I will use for an adult. Where do you recommend I purchase one of these online? I found a 24x24x48 Zoo Med reptibreeze online for $94 shipped, and a 16x16x20 for $44 shipped. What size screen cage would you use for a baby that is about 5-10 months? I've seen a 10 gallon with screen lid used, but I know about the stagnant conditions glass can cause. Would this make even a 10 gallon dangerous to a chameleon? I can supply whatever is best.
 
ScalesTailsandClaws said:
Thanks for the info. I will be feeding roaches which are already fed a specific high protein high nutrient roach chow, but can also feed them some veggies prior to feeding. I may do a mist king, depending on what my ambient humidity is after I add a room humidifier and mist by hand 3 times daily.... I'll still probably do a mist king. I can obtain a suitable sized screen cage at a local pet store, but they don't carry the full sized 24x24x48 that I will use for an adult. Where do you recommend I purchase one of these online? I found a 24x24x48 Zoo Med reptibreeze online for $94 shipped, and a 16x16x20 for $44 shipped. What size screen cage would you use for a baby that is about 5-10 months? I've seen a 10 gallon with screen lid used, but I know about the stagnant conditions glass can cause. Would this make even a 10 gallon dangerous to a chameleon? I can supply whatever is best.
Click to expand...

Dont get the reptibreeze.. they suck.. DIY cages has a 24x24x48 good quality screen cage for $97 shipped. I have my 4.5 month old ambanja in a 24x24x48 cage right now.. he is doing just fine.
 
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