Calcium Deficiency and Humidity

[Benjaminx3]

Hi, I just posted about Tava yesterday with the possible case of necrosis.

I took her to the vet today and she said, yes, her tail is dying, and she's getting the same issue on her face. I was told from her that low humidity could be a partial cause, and x-ray's showed that it'slikely that she has a calcium deficiency. She gave Tava an antibiotic and calcium shot and she'll be going back on Monday and Wednesday for another show and then a check-up.

What I wanted to know is: how can I get her more calcium? I had to dust her crickets less because she was showing signs of over-supplementation. Should I get a different dusting? Or should I gut-load the crickets? I've been getting crickets straight in an already set-up container from Petsmart because they said they were already gut-loaded. I figure it'd save us some money and the trouble of trying to maintain crickets ourselves if I did that. Should I start buying the crickets and feed gut-load them myself instead?

Also, what can I do to keep the humidity up? It's been dry here the past two weeks or so, and her humidity's been closer to the low 60s. She has a screened enclosure and I find it hard to keep it up. I have a fogger set up right now, and I mist her several times a day.

 

[AngieL]

Hi! I'm sorry your girl isn't well I have a few questions please?

By calcium deficiency do you mean she has metabolic bone disease or the start of it? Are her bones curving at all?

What signs of over supplementing was she showing and who told you to dust less?

How are these crickets being gutloaded and where do you get them? If its a pet shop I highly doubt they're doing it properly. Gutloading is so important, here's a link to an excellent source of info about which gutloads are good and high in calcium. Most dark leafy greens are good and your girl can eat them directly.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/

What humidity has your vet recommended? Low 60's should be fine for a veiled and I'm not sure if low humidity could actually cause necrosis unless it has contributed to a stuck shed.

I would really like to help you if I can

 

[kinyonga]

It's hard to over supplement with calcium usually...it's the prEformed vitamin A and D3. From supplements that are most likely to be over supplemented.
Can you post photos of her tail and face please?

When a chameleon is short of calcium you can use liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate. These are said to be more readily absorbed than the powders. Once her bones are strong again you can go back to only using the phos - free calcium powder at most feedings.

Re gutloading...I would be gutloading the crickets myself and not relying on the store to do it. You can use a wide variety of greens such as dandelions, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, etc.

 

[Benjaminx3]

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to help. Having to post here so many times makes me feel like an unfit chameleon owner, but I'm doing the best to get her better.

By calcium deficiency, I guess I just mean her calcium is low? I haven't noticed any physical abnormalities, and she's moving and gripping just fine. But the vet said from the x-ray that her bones do look thinner than the normal.

As for reducing dusting, Tava had puffiness in her throat for a few days, and I read from multiple sources that a common cause for that is over-supplementation of Vitamin D and I think A. The calcium supplement that I give to her is Calcium with Vitamin D3, so I started dusting slightly less with that, but that only started two weeks ago when I first noticed the problem, and it's seemed to fix the puffiness by now.

The crickets are from a pet shop.. so maybe I should start gut-loading them on my own again. I read that blog and about the dry gut-loading. I don't think I could find all of those ingredients.. maybe some, though. May I ask what you gut-load with?

I don't think my vet specifically recommended a certain humidity, just that I should check out a few websites on what to do to keep it higher.

 

[Benjaminx3]

It's hard to over supplement with calcium usually...it's the prEformed vitamin A and D3. From supplements that are most likely to be over supplemented.
Can you post photos of her tail and face please?

When a chameleon is short of calcium you can use liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate. These are said to be more readily absorbed than the powders. Once her bones are strong again you can go back to only using the phos - free calcium powder at most feedings.

Re gutloading...I would be gutloading the crickets myself and not relying on the store to do it. You can use a wide variety of greens such as dandelions, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, kale, etc and veggies such as carrots, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, etc.

I have a post with pictures of her tail here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/tavas-tail-turning-brown-91693/

I'll try to get to the store ASAP to get more crickets and some furits and veggies for them. Thank you!

 

[DavidBuchan]

You should find a plain Calcium powder with no d3 for daily dusting. The one with added d3 is usually given twice per month (this does depend on the brand or concentration of d3). You should definitely gutload the crickets yourself. I use Repashy bug burger which is a commercially available powder. Fresh fruits and veggies are still required.
Here is a great all-round caresheet for Veileds in case you haven't seen it yet - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/chameleonsinmyhouse/395-veiled-chameleon-care-sheet.html
Also, do you offer other feeders? Silkworms are high calcium and low fat. They are also good for hydration. Here is a great list of feeders for variety - https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/74-feeders.html
P.s. the only unfit owner is the one who doesn't do their best when they notice a problem. I hope little Tava appreciates it and gets well soon

 

[AngieL]

Ok if the bet says her bones are looking less dense but not curved yet then this could possibly be corrected. You need to use calcium without d3 or multivitamin each feeding. The d3 and multi should be used twice a month. If you had bern using them all the time then yes this is what caused the edema. The puffiness is called edema and my girl has just got over a case. I had to stop d3 and multi for a few weeks but continued with the plain calcium. If you can get a plain calcium to use each feeding, this along with the calcium shot could help her get back to normal.

Definately start to gutload yourself. You don't know what the store is feeding them, it could be cat food or something like that which is harmful to your chaneleon.

Humidity for my girl it usually 40-60% and we have a shower curtain on the back to help keep this up. During a shed it's important to get your chams skin moist with a warm spray. This should help any stubborn shed to come off. I do think this could have happened to her tail but it's unlikely that she had a stuck shed on her mouth.

 

[kinyonga]

Regarding the tail, i saw the photo in your other thread after I replied here. It looks like it could have been pinched in the cage door as was suggested. Can you post a photo of the face please?

Here is some information that might help you with supplementing and bone heath....

Appropriate temperatures will aid in digestion and thus indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to the UVB will allow the chameleon to produce the D3 needed to use the calcium in its diet.

Since most of the insects we use as feeders have a poor ratio of calcium to phos its important to dust them with phos - free calcium powder at most feedings to make up for it. Unless you make them look like ghosts you shouldn't be able to overdo it.

I dust them twice a month with phos - free calcium / D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB.
D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues but exposure to the UVB light shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the UVB.

I dust twice a month with the vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A. PrOformed sources of vitamin A will not build up in the system like prEformed vitamin A will. This leaves control of the prEformed vitamin A to the owner then.

D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance.

Calcium, D3, phos, and vitamin A are all players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon and need to be in balance.

Hope this helps!