Bloated and Rapid Death....
- Thread starter leigh01
- Start date
chameleonman57
New Member
I heard of the samething to, but have no idea either.
HairyScaryMark
New Member
According to the lady who owns my local reptile shop who is a qualified zoologist "you can't overdose on pure calcium". The suggestion here might be that things with other ingrediants are potential causes of overdoses.
Don't blame yourself prematurely though. It's probably not your fault and you really don't know all the facts yet.
Don't blame yourself prematurely though. It's probably not your fault and you really don't know all the facts yet.
luevelvet
Avid Member
Reptiles can and do overdose on calcium if the calcium cannot be absorbed potentially causing issues such as kidney stones for example. They can also store excess Vitamin D3 which contributes to liver and kidney damage.
To address your current issue...Should you lose another animal with similar symptoms, I would bring the body in for an examination. It sounds like a bacterial infection that is spreading to a few of your animals, though clinical test would be required for a proper diagnosis. Did your females share a cage?
Luis
To address your current issue...Should you lose another animal with similar symptoms, I would bring the body in for an examination. It sounds like a bacterial infection that is spreading to a few of your animals, though clinical test would be required for a proper diagnosis. Did your females share a cage?
Luis
Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy Leigh,
I'm not sure if you are looking for a "tie-in" between the bloating deaths and calcium. I don't see a "calcium" relationship but I do with Luis that you could easily be seeing an infection that hit your females (first). If the bloating came on fast then I'd have someone do a necropsy and see what was going on inside. If you can't afford having a vet perform the necropsy and you don't feel up to it yourself, see if you have a friend whose interested in reptiles do it for you. Have photos taken for posting and we might recognize what's going on.
Don't forget: https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/
There could be something spotted in the details...
ChrisnLisa
Avid Member
I am curious about the bloating you mentioned. Is the bloating prior to death? How quickly does the bloating come on? Is it possible you are mistaking bloating with egg production and females that are carrying eggs? Have you taken any of these girls in for a necropsy? How old were these girls? I hear it can be expensive, but with three deaths in one week, I would really consider taking one of those bodies in so you can get some definitive answers.
Thank you for all the replies... I did the whole how to ask for help thing the other day and nobody mentioned anything i was doing wrong, I thought I'd get more replies if it was short and to the point, I was hoping someone might have had a similar problem... it seemed like one of the girls was eggbound... she did have eggs in her but the other two, who did share a cage with her also died, without eggs.
The vet put one of them to sleep and disposed of her, the first is buried in the garden as the other two where fine at the time and the vet put her problems down to calcium deficiency.... lastly, Rosie who passed tonight became bloated very quickly, today, possibly it started yesterday... I've been keeping a REALLY CLOSE EYE ON HER and she was fine.
I gave her some critical care formula and some calcium (as advised by the vet) before i went to play football, (She had some neutrobal earlier today) came back 2 hours later and she looked like she had deflated, was all floppy and was very nearly dead... tongue hanging out, yellowy green stuff coming out of both ends... not much but a little. I couldn't believe what was happeneing.... the bloated thing didn't really click until I saw her looking like she did. She looked me right in the eye as she died... it was horrible! Guilt?.... you would not belive!
I have a a male in a separate cage but nearby and to be honest I was so concerend about him I buried Rosie and threw out everything in her cage, and disinfected everything. Like the entire room.... and everything in it.
I've emailed my vet with all the info to see if he has any ideas. He has seen two of my girls and took blood samples etc when Lola was in for a week just before she died. As he has had contact with the first two to go I'm hoping he can shed some light on this.
I'm terrified Greg might go too that would be too much!
The vet put one of them to sleep and disposed of her, the first is buried in the garden as the other two where fine at the time and the vet put her problems down to calcium deficiency.... lastly, Rosie who passed tonight became bloated very quickly, today, possibly it started yesterday... I've been keeping a REALLY CLOSE EYE ON HER and she was fine.
I gave her some critical care formula and some calcium (as advised by the vet) before i went to play football, (She had some neutrobal earlier today) came back 2 hours later and she looked like she had deflated, was all floppy and was very nearly dead... tongue hanging out, yellowy green stuff coming out of both ends... not much but a little. I couldn't believe what was happeneing.... the bloated thing didn't really click until I saw her looking like she did. She looked me right in the eye as she died... it was horrible! Guilt?.... you would not belive!
I have a a male in a separate cage but nearby and to be honest I was so concerend about him I buried Rosie and threw out everything in her cage, and disinfected everything. Like the entire room.... and everything in it.
I've emailed my vet with all the info to see if he has any ideas. He has seen two of my girls and took blood samples etc when Lola was in for a week just before she died. As he has had contact with the first two to go I'm hoping he can shed some light on this.
I'm terrified Greg might go too that would be too much!
Thanks again.. I have no girls left I'm sorry to say so nobody to take pics of... the male is fine. He had a shot of antiboitics today, more for my piece of mind than anything, and everything has been disinfected or thrown away... the vet said the same as you guys, he'd need to do an autopsy or whatever its called to have a proper idea.
He did shoot down all my theories, bacterial and virus unlikley, more common if i was swapping animals with other people of if they had been bought from a pet shop recently... no problem with my suppliments, I'm none the wiser... its a mystery.
I didnt get any negative feedback from my "How to ask for help" from here or from the vet... I'm hopeing Rosies eggs hatch or at least some of them! That gives me 6 to 8 months to do some more research and start over maybe get myself another adult female then.
He did shoot down all my theories, bacterial and virus unlikley, more common if i was swapping animals with other people of if they had been bought from a pet shop recently... no problem with my suppliments, I'm none the wiser... its a mystery.
I didnt get any negative feedback from my "How to ask for help" from here or from the vet... I'm hopeing Rosies eggs hatch or at least some of them! That gives me 6 to 8 months to do some more research and start over maybe get myself another adult female then.
Surfrat
New Member
Were they WC ( Wild Caught) or CB (Captive Born)?
How long had you had them?
Was the male housed separately from the females?
For all three to get sick and die so quickly I would think some type of contagion. Of course bloating can be a sign of dehydration also? Were tehy outside in the heat not being misted enough maybe?
Sorry, these are just ideas im tossing around for you..
How long had you had them?
Was the male housed separately from the females?
For all three to get sick and die so quickly I would think some type of contagion. Of course bloating can be a sign of dehydration also? Were tehy outside in the heat not being misted enough maybe?
Sorry, these are just ideas im tossing around for you..
You said..."nobody mentioned anything i was doing wrong"...I asked you if you were keeping more than one together and you said..."I know there have been allot of threads about keeping chameleons together and really dont want to go there in this thread"...so I didn't pursue it even though I had already suggested that it wasn't a good idea...and I still feel that it may have played a part in your chameleons' problems....so here is some information (mostly from well-known sources)...
Keeping chameleons in the same cage...
When chameleons are in the wild and one encounters another it has the option of moving away from it....when they are in captivity, unless the cage is huge, they can not move far enough away from each other so there is a "background" stress there all the time. It won't be apparent all the time...but it will eventually lower the immune system of one or both or all of them and lead to problems.
"The presence of another chameleon in the same cage or within sight can be very stressful and makes the chameleon more prone to illness."...
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+2211&aid=2363
The whole article is worth reading...
"In captivity, the results of co-habitation usually end up with a stunted, poor health, or dead chameleon. The reason why there is any debate at all about this issue is the combination of a strong innate desire in human beings to group animals together and the fact that health issues related to co-habitation usually manifest themselves over time and indirectly. This makes the official cause of death something other than co-habitation. And the problems become noticeable to the keeper long after the chameleons have been together thus, in the keepers mind, ruling out co-habitation as a source of trouble."...and...""Well, I've kept my chameleons together with no problem!" They can say that because no one can see a depressed immune system! "...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=66
"The presence of another chameleon in the same cage or sight of another chameleon in another cage may cause extreme stress and predispose them to illness."...
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/chameleons.htm
Stress can reduce calcium absorption...
"Stress and old age lower calcium absorption."...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=96
An autopsy should give you some indication of what was wrong...but as one of the sites above said it might make it look like the official cause of death is something other than co-habitation....and maybe it was.
I'm sorry that you lost your chameleons. I hope things will go better with any of the babies that hatch.
Keeping chameleons in the same cage...
When chameleons are in the wild and one encounters another it has the option of moving away from it....when they are in captivity, unless the cage is huge, they can not move far enough away from each other so there is a "background" stress there all the time. It won't be apparent all the time...but it will eventually lower the immune system of one or both or all of them and lead to problems.
"The presence of another chameleon in the same cage or within sight can be very stressful and makes the chameleon more prone to illness."...
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+2211&aid=2363
The whole article is worth reading...
"In captivity, the results of co-habitation usually end up with a stunted, poor health, or dead chameleon. The reason why there is any debate at all about this issue is the combination of a strong innate desire in human beings to group animals together and the fact that health issues related to co-habitation usually manifest themselves over time and indirectly. This makes the official cause of death something other than co-habitation. And the problems become noticeable to the keeper long after the chameleons have been together thus, in the keepers mind, ruling out co-habitation as a source of trouble."...and...""Well, I've kept my chameleons together with no problem!" They can say that because no one can see a depressed immune system! "...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=66
"The presence of another chameleon in the same cage or sight of another chameleon in another cage may cause extreme stress and predispose them to illness."...
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/chameleons.htm
Stress can reduce calcium absorption...
"Stress and old age lower calcium absorption."...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=96
An autopsy should give you some indication of what was wrong...but as one of the sites above said it might make it look like the official cause of death is something other than co-habitation....and maybe it was.
I'm sorry that you lost your chameleons. I hope things will go better with any of the babies that hatch.
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