Bacterial transmission from Dame to egg and effect on hatch rate

[clarkrw3]

A few months ago I had a very interesting conversation with my Vet Dr. Todd Driggers here in AZ. I was describing to him this phenomena that I have noticed in the chameleon community were eggs go to the point of hatching but don't hatch. When opened these eggs show fully formed embryos that have passed. Dr. Driggers immediately asked me if the dame's had been tested for Chlamydia. The answer I am sure is NO, in all my searching on the forum I have never seen anyone even remotely mention Chlamydia. He went on to explain that it has been shown that what I was describing has been seen in avian eggs and that it was a bacterium (often chlamydia) that was the cause. There have been many documented cases of reptiles including chameleons that have tested positive for Chlamydia.

So I was hoping we could get some dialog on why these late stage deaths occur and possibly if anyone has a dame that has had this problem if they could get it tested.

Here are a few links for the reading to get us started:

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/eggs.html

http://vet.sagepub.com/content/41/4/388.short

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/poultlea.pdf

http://www.germfreepoultry.com/index.php/egg-diseases

http://www.mds-usa.com/micro_chlamydia.html

 

[suzi]

Very interesting. Thanks for the links Rob I have no personal experience with that but am interested in hearing other peoples knowledge and/ or experience

 

[kinyonga]

Its also thought that in some cases it can be from the substrate being too moist. If the famale has clamydia would only some of the babies die in the eggs?

 

[clarkrw3]

Its also thought that in some cases it can be from the substrate being too moist. If the famale has clamydia would only some of the babies die in the eggs?

I don't know. That is one of the questions. From one of those links they have macaw eggs that were fully formed but died in the egg. They took the rest of the eggs form that particular bird and injected the eggs with antibiotics and to their surprise they all hatched I am particularly thinking this might have some play in those clutches where all the eggs are fully formed and none of them hatch but who knows. I would just love to see it investigated because I know it has been a problem for some breeding chams and NO one seems to really have an answer as to why it happens.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Really interesting! I didn't even know reptiles had chlamydia...well known in birds though. Chlamydophila psittici is somewhat common in psitticines (parrots). It's called psittacosis in birds and can be transmitted to humans. Doesn't look like reptiles get that species of chlamydia. Will have to look into this now!

 

[clarkrw3]

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? I know that having whole clutches form and not hatch is a problem in chameleons, and I would think more people that have had this horrible thing happen to them would be very interested in a possible solution. It could be as easy as giving the female that has had a previous late egg death clutch tetracycline before breeding her again and see if you get a different result.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Anyone have any more thoughts on this? I know that having whole clutches form and not hatch is a problem in chameleons, and I would think more people that have had this horrible thing happen to them would be very interested in a possible solution. It could be as easy as giving the female that has had a previous late egg death clutch tetracycline before breeding her again and see if you get a different result.

I think it will take a few months to feedback on this topic. Given the months eggs take. If my quad eggs don't hatch in the next 30 days, I could have the girls tested.

 

[clarkrw3]

I think it will take a few months to feedback on this topic. Given the months eggs take. If my quad eggs don't hatch in the next 30 days, I could have the girls tested.

Thanks Steve!! I wasn't sure if I was talking in the dark, or if everyone just thought it was a crazy idea.