Baby Cham Not Eating or Drinking

[Wykd]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - female panther - 5 days
Handling - minimal due to acclimation period
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? crickets, cricket crak, rep calc +, he has not really ate much if any
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?repashy calc +
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? misting and dripper
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?see photo
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. young little guy got from YankfanThom, very helpful breeder and no question imo of his commitment to the cham's while with him.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) 18x18x36 - screen. The 12x12x24 glass all he did was hang upside down and to nudge at the glass door to get out.
Lighting - reptisun 5.0 t8, 60w incandescent bulb, 7am-7pm
Temperature - top/basking areas 85-90's, mid 80-75, lower 75-68, overnight 73-60's. Measured via 1 dgitial temp/hygro, and analog temp & hygro's in different temperature zones.
Humidity - basking spot lowest -40d before misting, 60s after misting. ambient
50-80. Mist 7:30, 12:30, 5:00. dripper up and running and manaul mistings if RH drops low 40's.
Plants - umbrella plant, bromilade, croton, peace lily.
Placement - man cave, near 2x2x4 cage. on coffee table, no ac vents on that side of room.
Location - North Carolina

Current Problem - Little Rosco has been home for 5 days. He drank when he arrived and have not seen him drink since then. He will not feed on crickets from cup or free range. I have seen him eat 3 very small just beyond pinhead sized crickets but i had to kill it hem and place in front of him. He has pooped 3 times in 5 days and it had a slight orange tint to it.

He does not move and sleeps/plays dead all day. I have tried to hydrate him via shower but he totally freaks. He moves very wobbly and will fall from the plant and just lay where he falls. Basically very lethargic and weak. I have been trying to get him outside in the am for an hour and let him move around the grass and hunt ants etc.. but he just sits and does not move.

Very concerned about lack of drinking and or eating. I honestly think he is dying and afraid to try force feed a baby and even more so due to my having large hands afraid to hurt him more.

CoCo is in the cage near him and eats and drinks and roams around no problem and has the same setup basically.

 

[GlassEyez]

What type of umbrella tree? There's 2 types and one is toxic the other is OK. The schefflera arbicola is the safe one

 

[Wykd]

thats the one same as in both cages

 

[Swayne8998]

Hm. My friend this is NOT a good sign. I would get him to a vet ASAP as weak grip and being unable to support himself could be MBD. Where did you get him from? He might have not been taken care of properly previously. My guy poops every day in the morning. Are you dusting his food? Fill out some more of the form. I'm worried that your cham could be very sick! I would at least get a checkup to see what's wrong. But the lack of eating and drinking could very well be the stress of ariving at his new home and he's still getting used to you.

 

[Psychobunny]

Awwww, poor little guy.
I hope one of the site sponsors didnt send him to you via post this young!!

He is too small and fragile to be moved around and survive the stress.

What size cage r u using for him?

 

[Wykd]

I doubt its mdb this early he's what 2 months old. I called my friend who is a friend of a local herp guru and he came over already this morning. The dude left work and came to look at my cham how cool was that?

Anyhow he thinks it was move stress related. He looked over my husbandry and other than him being in a 18x18x36 said all was ok. He prefers it in the 18x18x36 over the 12x12x24 glass he said to leave him be.

The humidity may be border line and suggests more frequent and less lengthy misting to reduce the hi and lo spikes and kind of even it out to lessen the stress.

He then had me go get the 5-6 feeders and dust them and bring him the tongs.
Well he then brought the little guy out of the cage and we went out to the sunlight. and gently tugged on his little gullet and over the next 5 minutes fed the crickets to Rosco. Then he put him down into the grass and misted the area/grass around him, and we all stood back. Rosco he sat and played dead basically for a bit then started lapping a bit of water off the grass, then some more and he did this for a bit which made me very happy. He moved around some and then we brought him in to his cage.

He moved my dripper around and instead of it dripping thru the hole I had for the tube hr moved it so it dripped onto the screen top and thru to the same area. This seemed to please Rosco since he likes to hang from the screen upside down and he went and drank off the screen top.

Anyways he showed me how to force feed gently and wants me to do that for a few days and then see how he does from a feeding cup etc...

He said its not uncommon to see baby's stress with a move more than a juvenile etc.. and sometimes they have to be kick started into the routine.

 

[lysinlight87]

sounds like you found the right person to help

 

[ataraxia]

You said it is a female then say he, him and his throughout the description?

I would suggest not handling the animal at all right now. Let it settle down in its new environment with no pressure from you.. Some take a while to acclimate and if you dont leave it be. This will take even longer than it needs to be.

Feeder suggestions: A cham that size is eating 1/8th inch crickets (they look almost like ants), fruit flies, red runner nymphs extra small silks. If the feeders are too large the animal will not eat. 1/4 inch crickets which are typically sold in most stores as small crickets are probably to big atm.

Watering: how long to do you mist for? Is this animal on a recycled system you previously were thinking about? The urate looks ok but still could use a little more hydration. Hydration and humidity is super important with young ones.

Cage: a 12x15x20 screen cage is great for young ones. Put in a live plant with a few vines so they feel safe and hunt efficiently.

 

[Wykd]

Thanks for catching the she reference, sorry was watching the female chase down crickets while writing the post and got distracted. The post was about the male baby.

This cham is on the same system my female cham is on. As I had said in my post about the looped water system.. it was a question never said I was married to it or going to do it.

Misting is done 5min @ 730, 2.5min @ 1030, 2.5min @ 130, 2.5min @ 5pm. I do this to keep the humidity more level @ 60-70 range vs the 50-80 lo/hi spikes of lesser and longer mistings. Or should I go for the 3 times a day to create the humidity spikes?

Yeah I don't want to bother the guy no more than needed so he can settle in. I figured it more traumatic on the smaller ones than a juvenile.

The feeders are the 1/8 I made sure to have 500 on hand when he arrived. They walk up to him and he moves away. I will order some extra small silks,, etc...

I do have some extra material around and the smaller screened cage is a good idea. I will make it so that I can stick it inthe 18x18x36 as a small divider. That way it would benefit from the humidity of the existing enclosure?

He has been a little more active today and actually saw him drink 2-3 times today, but for the most part did not see him feed. He would just circle on the top screen under the uvb light and basking lamp.

 

[ataraxia]

I have used a 18x18x36 with a styrofoam divider right down the middle from front to back, top to bottom. It actually works really well also.

Can you post a pic of the crickets? Id like to be sure they are around 2 weeks.

Your misting schedule is good. I would personally opt for the 3 times a day but it is up to you.

Be sure you take out all crickets every night. Hold feeding crickets tomorrow till evening and visit the cage only if it is necessary.

 

[Wykd]

the styrofoam divider is great idea... divide it into 4 guarters or just into 2 sections?

I have used a 18x18x36 with a styrofoam divider right down the middle from front to back, top to bottom. It actually works really well also.

Can you post a pic of the crickets? Id like to be sure they are around 2 weeks.

Your misting schedule is good. I would personally opt for the 3 times a day but it is up to you.

Be sure you take out all crickets every night. Hold feeding crickets tomorrow till evening and visit the cage only if it is necessary.

 

[ataraxia]

2 sections. a right and left. i used zip ties to poke through the foam board to attach vines and limbs too.

 

[AlecWade]

You have quite a few plants are you absolutely sure they were all thoroughly cleaned and did you repot them first? I'm by no means an expert Cham keeper but I say this because I poisoned and nearly killed my first veiled when I did not thoroughly wash all the pesticides off! Four plants is quite a lot for a baby and the symptoms then were very similar to yours. Hosing a plant off even twice doesn't seem to do the trick as pesticides are made to be water resistant! Just trying to help!

 

[Wykd]

Yeah the plants are clean, I have the same setup in enclosures. I make sure an enclosure is up and running for a week before adding livestock in any pet scenario.

I think the husbandry is fine and believe its a cpl of factors as noted by others:

its a baby a weeee little cham and in that transition stage from ff/pinhead to 1/8 crickets

its trying to get settled in to its new home after the mailing

taking him from the 12x12x20 glass and putting him in the 18x18x36 screen is to early still. I will have to either put him back in that small enclosure, get a small screen one or divide up the one he is in.

Thanks will keep you posted!

 

[Wykd]

Ok Rosco is back in the glass 12x12x20, with some changes this time around. I have put some black plastic around the sides to give him some acclimation privacy since the only place available for him in that thing is on my desk.

As soon as I put him in and closed the doors he looked around and pooped. I misted down the enclosure lightly and turned the dripped on low. I did see him thru the crak wander over and drink a bit from the dripper so that's a bonus!

Since its the glass enclosure I will be using the fogger to help maintain RH and mist less and rely on the dripper more. Thats to hopefully help keep the enclosure in balance. These glass love to collect water/moisture then send RH off the chart, which is one reason I had no problem taking him out for the screen earlier.

 

[Wykd]

Just an update...

He is drinking when he decides to wake up and wander over.

His poop was black/brownish & white. This is the 1st time it wasn't orangish and white.

He just hangs like a bat, or circles around like a dog getting comfy and stays under the basking lamp 24/7. I had to move the dripper over since he seemed to lazy to go over and drink. Is it normal for baby's around 1 month to sleep all the time and hang all the time? He has not left the screen top yet since going in. I think the eyes are open just small slits, but not sure 100%, and dont want to disturb him.

temp/humidity all checks out across the little enclosure.

He has eyed the crickets and the feeding cup but no eating yet.