A few questions

[thealissa]

I have two female veiled chameleons... one at about 5/6 months and one at about 2/3 months old. I'm only assuming their ages because they were unknown by the petstore.

First off, I don't plan on mating either of them. Is it okay for them to lay infertile eggs? I've heard both sides, and I don't know which to believe. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Also, when should I be expecting her to be laying eggs? I've heard 6 months, and I've heard 2 years. My oldest is looking a tad chubby, but she hasn't been hanging around the bottom of her cage or anything yet.

Lastly, my youngest one keeps digging at the bottom of her cage, and I have no idea why. The light isn't too hot, and I posted paper on the side she was digging at (as a quick fix to see if she was thinking there was something outside of the cage that she could climb onto) but she still goes there everyday and digs. Any ideas?

Thank you!

 

[Julirs]

Welcome to the forum. Is it OK for them to lay infertiles?????-Well, you really do not have a choice. Some will lay infertiles while some may not. It is best to keep a laying pot in the cages with them from 5-6 months of age. They can lay infertiles as young as about 6 months. What are you housing them in? Are you well informed of supplements and UVB lighting. What are your temps?

 

[thealissa]

I have the eldest in an aluminum screened cage (18X18X36) and the youngest in glass (I know, I know. She will be moving into a screened cage shortly) 12X12X18 enclosure because she is so small at the moment.

I am well informed on lighting as well as supplements. I also take them out (whenever possible, usually a couple times per week) out in the sun. I'm just not sure when to be expecting eggs or anything, as these are my first chams.

I've been told that most chameleons who lay infertile eggs die because the eggs are larger. I don't know how true this, hence my post. On chameleonnews.com they have a "myths" page stating that females are okay if not mated. I'm just not hearing enough of one side of the topic.

 

[thealissa]

Oh yeah, day time temps are around 90 degress F, and night time at about 78F.

 

[Julirs]

Again-no choice here-but I have never had an experience of larger eggs-infertiles are usually smaller. The crap about needing to breed them orthey will die is -well-just crap. Since these are your first chams we are alwayshappy to check and help you tweak your husbandry. If you fill this out people can make helpful and potentially life saving suggestions.
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

 

[Julirs]

Oh yeah, day time temps are around 90 degress F, and night time at about 78F.

One thing that you can certainly do to help your females not lay large clutches of infertiles is to keep their temps in the low to mid 80's in the basking spot and reduce food intake (not powerfeed them) starting at about 5-6 months.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Although I would agree that you should not power-feed them, I would disagree
on the lowering of the temps. Veileds need the 90F-95F basking spot,
they like heat a bit more than many other chameleons and 80 just isn't good enough.
Julirs is right though, if your ambient temp is 90F then the chameleon's metabolism
will be very high, which means she will produce a lot of eggs.

The ambient temp, however, should range from 72-80, and the basking spot
ALONE should be 90F, not the whole enclosure.

Your chameleon digging at the bottom of the enclosure means she's most
likely looking for a site to deposit eggs. You can stick her in a garbage can
with about 8-10 inches of moist (but not wet, and not dry) sand where
she can dig a tunnel. Pack this sand down so it will not collapse on her if
she digs down to the bottom.

You can add a branch in there with a clamp lamp for a basking spot where
she can bask until she is ready to dig her hole.

Is she very fat right now? Some pics would help in determining if she is
close to laying or not.

I had a female veiled live 8 years and all she layed for me was infertile clutches
so yes it is a complete myth that they die if not mated. The most common problem
of eggbinding is actually not having an appropriate place to lay eggs,
which makes them retain the eggs too long, causing internal problems.

I found that just having a large pot (18 inch diameter) with a ficus plant in it
was good enough, she just layed her eggs in there and I didn't have to
worry about having moist sand in a bucket all the time! lol

Goodluck!

 

[Julirs]

Keeping female Veileds for years with basking temps in the low to mid 80's.

In fact my indoor males are basking in the low 90's. No issues.

The 2-3 month old is not going to lay eggs provided that is really her age.

 

[Zen Reptiles]

For sure you can keep almost any lizard at 80F, I'm just saying that if you provide
a gradient up to 95F where they can thermoregulate themselves, instead
of being thermoregulated by us, it helps with their digestion and fighting off
parasites.

Totally up to you though. Either way works, most of my reptiles thermoregulate
themselves to be exactly 80.5F, every day, so most of the time that temp is great
and probably what they prefer, but allowing them access to hotter temps
helps, and they'll take advantage of it.

 

[thealissa]

Chameleon Info:

Chameleon -
#1 - veiled, female, approx. 6 months old, in my care for about 3 months.
#2 - veiled, female, approx. 3 months old, in my care for only a few weeks.

Handling -
#1 - about once per week
#2 - about 3 times per week (as she is more calm and easy-going)

Feeding -
Both are fed the same things, only different proportions, obviously.
In the mornings they are fed a mix of peas, cut up dandelion greens, cut up baby spinach, cut up arugula--all organic and perwashed. Later in the afternoon they are fed either small crickets or small mealworms daily (I usually do crickets, and only do mealworms 2 or 3 times per week)
I gutload the crickets with Fluker's cricket quencher, sometimes romaine lettuce, and potatoes.
#1-10-15 crickets or mealworms per day
#2-8-10 crickets or mealworms per day (I am aware that she is suppose to be eating more, but I find that if I give her more, I just have a bunch of crickets running around the bottom of her cage at night)

Supplements -

I dust with ReptoLife vitamins and ReptoCal calcium powders twice per week.

Watering -

I mist both cages about 4 times daily for about one minute each. Humidity is around 50%. I rarely see them drinking, but I know they are hydrated. Their greens are always wet (not soaking) The youngest isn't eating much of her greens yet, but the eldest always eats all I give her.

Fecal Description -

Neither have been tested for parasites, yet. Droppings aren't runny, but aren't necessarily rock-solid either. Coloration is normal, no orange.

History -
#1 is from Petsmart and #2 is from Petco

Current Problem -
-Is it okay to have my girls lay infertile eggs?
-When should I be expecting eggs?
-#2 keeps digging at the bottom of her cage, any ideas why?

Cage Info:

Cage Type -
#1-Zoo Med 18X18X36 all aluminum screening
#2-Exo Terra "Tropical Terrarium" 12X12X18 glass cage, with screen top and front panel vents. She will be updated to the same size and type of cage as #1 once she grows a bit more.

Lighting -
#1-ESU "Reptile Super UV daylight" (fluorescent) and a Zoo Med 40W basking bulb
#2-ReptiGlo 5.0
Lights come on around 8:30am and go off around 8:30pm.

Temperature -
Daytime temps are around 90 degrees F, and night time temps around 78F. Measured with Exo Terra stick-on thermometers (I am aware that they are not as accurate as the digital readers. I'm working on upgrading things as they become affordable)

Humidity -
Humidity is always are 50%, creating by misting about 4 times daily, for about 1 minute long sprays. Humidity is measured with an Exo Terra stick-on hydrometer.

Plants -
No live plants...yet. I have an umbrella plant which is going in soon, and I'm trying to find another organically grown plant.

Placement -
#1-corner of my bedroom, next to a window (but not in front of, by any means) facing East. Adjacent to a floor fan and underneath the typical ceiling fan. No traffic, except me during feeding, cleaning, and such. The cage is about 3ft off of the floor.
#2-on top of a dresser on one of the side walls of my bedroom. Floor fan doesn't extend to this cage, but it is still underneath the ceiling one, which is always on. No traffic again, except for me. This cage is a little over 3ft off of the floor.

Location - I'm in Gilbert (outside of PHX), AZ.

 

[Julirs]

Chameleon Info:

Chameleon -
#1 - veiled, female, approx. 6 months old, in my care for about 3 months.
#2 - veiled, female, approx. 3 months old, in my care for only a few weeks.

Handling -
#1 - about once per week
#2 - about 3 times per week (as she is more calm and easy-going)

Feeding -
Both are fed the same things, only different proportions, obviously.
In the mornings they are fed a mix of peas, cut up dandelion greens, cut up baby spinach, cut up arugula--all organic and perwashed. Later in the afternoon they are fed either small crickets or small mealworms daily (I usually do crickets, and only do mealworms 2 or 3 times per week)
I gutload the crickets with Fluker's cricket quencher, sometimes romaine lettuce, and potatoes.
#1-10-15 crickets or mealworms(Not a good feeder for chams) per day
#2-8-10 crickets or mealworms per day (I am aware that she is suppose to be eating more, but I find that if I give her more, I just have a bunch of crickets running around the bottom of her cage at night)
LOL-my thought here was are you sure you have a chameleon? Most juvies don't touch greens. Spinach is not a good thing as it robs calcium.Supplements -

I dust with ReptoLife vitamins and ReptoCal calcium powders twice per week.

Watering -

I mist both cages about 4 times daily for about one minute each. Humidity is around 50%. I rarely see them drinking, but I know they are hydrated. Their greens are always wet (not soaking) The youngest isn't eating much of her greens yet, but the eldest always eats all I give her.

Fecal Description -

Neither have been tested for parasites, yet. Droppings aren't runny, but aren't necessarily rock-solid either. Coloration is normal, no orange.

History -
#1 is from Petsmart and #2 is from Petco

Current Problem -
-Is it okay to have my girls lay infertile eggs?
-When should I be expecting eggs?
-#2 keeps digging at the bottom of her cage, any ideas why?

Cage Info:

Cage Type -
#1-Zoo Med 18X18X36 all aluminum screening
#2-Exo Terra "Tropical Terrarium" 12X12X18 glass cage, with screen top and front panel vents. She will be updated to the same size and type of cage as #1 once she grows a bit more.

Lighting -
#1-ESU "Reptile Super UV daylight-Not UVB" (fluorescent) and a Zoo Med 40W basking bulb
#2-ReptiGlo 5.0
Lights come on around 8:30am and go off around 8:30pm.
Both cages need UVB flourescent tubes-compact UVB is dangerous.
Temperature -
Daytime temps are around 90 degrees F(Too high for both ages), and night time temps around 78F. Measured with Exo Terra stick-on thermometers (I am aware that they are not as accurate as the digital readers. I'm working on upgrading things as they become affordable)
Stick on thermometers kill chamelons-they do not give accurate readings. Digital thermometers are less than $10.00
Humidity -
Humidity is always are 50%, creating by misting about 4 times daily, for about 1 minute long sprays. Humidity is measured with an Exo Terra stick-on hydrometer.

Plants -
No live plants...yet. I have an umbrella plant which is going in soon, and I'm trying to find another organically grown plant.

Placement -
#1-corner of my bedroom, next to a window (but not in front of, by any means) facing East. Adjacent to a floor fan and underneath the typical ceiling fan. No traffic, except me during feeding, cleaning, and such. The cage is about 3ft off of the floor.
#2-on top of a dresser on one of the side walls of my bedroom. Floor fan doesn't extend to this cage, but it is still underneath the ceiling one, which is always on. No traffic again, except for me. This cage is a little over 3ft off of the floor.

Location - I'm in Gilbert (outside of PHX), AZ.

With just a bit of tweaking you will be good.

 

[thealissa]

It's weird because I've heard from a few different people that spinach isn't good, but I bought a book on chameleons and it recommends spinach.. I guess everyone just has their own opinions.

My next update is the lighting though. In which case I will be purchasing better lighting. I also have 4 beardies, so it's a lot to keep up with, cost-wise.

I'm mainly just worried of my 6 month old getting egg bound. Do I simply wait for the evident signs of egg bearing to start putting her the bucket of sand? I will take pictures of her tomorrow, when she is up, for everyone. She isn't too large, just has a bit of a tummy.

 

[littleliz]

It is possible for the cham who is 3 months old to have eggs....I have heard of chams this young being gravid but it is rare. My first lady cham reached maturity and became gravid at 5 months which again is a little early but no two chams are the same. Humans vary in ages of maturity to LOL. From my experience restless behaviour followed by digging is a sure fire sign she's gravid!

 

[dodolah]

It's weird because I've heard from a few different people that spinach isn't good, but I bought a book on chameleons and it recommends spinach.. I guess everyone just has their own opinions.

My next update is the lighting though. In which case I will be purchasing better lighting. I also have 4 beardies, so it's a lot to keep up with, cost-wise.

I'm mainly just worried of my 6 month old getting egg bound. Do I simply wait for the evident signs of egg bearing to start putting her the bucket of sand? I will take pictures of her tomorrow, when she is up, for everyone. She isn't too large, just has a bit of a tummy.

Not opinions. Facts:
The main sources of dietary oxalate are plants and plant products, principally seeds and leafy plants related to spinach and rhubarb. In contrast, negligible amounts of oxalate occur in foods of animal origin. The physiological role of oxalate in plants is not precisely known. It has been suggested that it is involved in seed germination, calcium storage and regulation, ion balance, detoxification, structural strength, and insect repulsion6,7. At one extreme, the consumption of large amounts of plant oxalate and its absorption can be fatal to both humans and other animals because of oxalosis, the formation of calcium oxalate deposits in body tissues8,9. The ingestion of more moderate amounts of oxalate appears to play an important role in calcium oxalate kidney stone disease because of its absorption and excretion in urine3.

Taken from: http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v57/n4/full/4491506a.html

Spinach has Oxalate;

Oxalate is one of a number of factors that can contribute to gout and kidney stones. Equally or more notable factors contributing to calcium stones are: genetic tendency, high intake of animal protein, excess calcium intake, excess vitamin D, prolonged immobility, hyperparathyroidism, renal tubular acidosis, and excess dietary fiber.[5]

Taken from wikipedia rolleyes: i know it's not exactly a scientific site.. but, good none the less).

So, be aware of what you are putting into your chameleon's tummy.
I am not saying they will die instantly from eating crickets gutloaded with spinach.. but, just be aware of what spinach and oxalate do to your chameleon's ability to absorb calcium.

For the egg laying question, I would put a bucket of sand there anyway as a precaution.
Cheers

 

[kinyonga]

The point of the lower temperature for female veileds is to slow the metabolism slightly to make the lower amount of food move through them a little slower and to help control the clutch size. Veileds don't "have" to lay eggs at all and this is also controlled by diet and to some extent temperature.

Thealissa...your gutload for the crickets can/should consist of a wide variety of greens (dandelions, kale, endive, collards, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, sweet potato, squash, zucchini, celery leaves, parsnips, sweet red pepper, etc.). A small bit of romaine can be used for the moisture...but there are better things than that.


You said..."ReptoLife vitamins and ReptoCal calcium powders twice per week"...I know ReptoCal has D3 and vitamin A in it as well as calcium...but I don't know about ReptoLife...but here's some reasoning behind using supplements...
Exposure to UVB (that does not pass through glass or plastic) allows the chameleon to produce D3 which allows it to use the calcium in its system. Many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so dusting at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder helps to make up for this.

Using a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source twice a month will ensure that they get their vitamins without overdoing it. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert beta carotene to vitamin A or not...so some people give a little preformed vitamin A once in a while. Excess preformed vitamin A can prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD so be careful with it.

If the chameleon gets its UVB from lights on the cage, then its also important to dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder. D3 from supplements can also build up in the system, so don't overdo it.

Calcium, phos., vitamin D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and should be in balance. You need to look at what you supplement with, feed to the insects and feed to the chameleon when trying to balance this.

Appropriate temperatures aid in digestion...so that plays a part too.

I always provide an opaque container of washed playsand in the cages of any females that are sexually mature so that eggbinding is not risked. The container only needs to be big enough that when empty the chameleon fits into it with a couple of inches to spare on all sides including above and below....but larger is better.

Hope this helps!