New Meller Chameleon Not doing so Well

C

cmc1786

New Member
*Died* New Meller Chameleon Not doing so Well

Background
I purchased another reptile from an out of state dealer and due to being late on shipping they included the meller chameleon with the order. I have ordered a screen cage 24 x 24 x 72 with drip system the uvb lights and the works but unfortunately it does not arrive till Thursday, so I'm trying to make due with what I have.

The Problem:
Right off the bat when he arrived he would rarely open his eyes and seemed extremely lethargic. I have yet to even see him eat or move more then to lift his head, and once maybe every our he may open his eyes for few seconds and then close them.

What I have done so far:
I have made him a temporary habitat as best I could, I have a 60 watt heat bulb mounted above the tank as well as few drip cups on top the tank and used a needle to put a hole in each one which is keeping nice slow drip. I also have spray bottle to spray water through out the tank and, I have a humidifier that I had prior to the chameleon that I have slipped in the cage in-case it could help any. So the first couple days observed him and never saw him eat and he would just sit there as crickets would walk right over him, and had never going to bathroom or anything. Finnaly he was looking so thin and dehydrated I begin to force feed him a few gut loaded crickets yesterday which he chewed up and ate and soaked him in unflavored pediolyte mixed with water for few minutes. Last night he finally went to the restroom as well. I have also set his tank outside since there was a light rain today. So I stayed up the entire night watching him and he has still yet to eat anything or open his eyes or even move around. I was planning on keeping him outside for most of the daylight hours and probably end up force feeding him again today if he has still not eaten.

Well any suggestion would be great, if there is anything you see in pictures or my explanation that is wrong don't feel freeto chime in and tell me. I have never had chameleons so new absolutely nothing about them and have surfed the internet researching for past day to even get to where I am now and also the little guy as really grown on me so determined to do what ever it takes to get him well. Also, if there are any vital items that I should just get immidiatly to get him healthy that I should not wait till Thursday when all his real lights and habitat and everything come in let me know as well.

I will include a picture of him to see color wise how he looks, I'm just so paranoid right now when i read the explanation on health and colors I look at him and see the worse. Also, I have included a picture of the temporary set up I was keeping him in till Thursday.

Thank you so much!



 
Hello. How long ago did you say you got the melleri? He may still be settling in and its very likely your melleri is WC(wild caught). Try reading a lot from this website... www.melleridiscovery.com It is very helpful and maybe you can get some ideas for other things to do for your guy.

And by the way.. can you take a pic of his poop and urate. Urate is the white or orange thing connecting to the poop. if its white..your chameleon is dehydrated. If it is orange, he is dehydrated.
 
Last edited:
He arrived on Tuesday, and never ate or really moved much since then. Also, like I said the cage was random things lying around from other reptiles that I was going to try to use until this Thursday when all his new things arrive.

Thursday order from lllreptiles
-260 gallon basic Reptarium 29x29x72height
-Reptisun 5.0 uvb
-Zoo Med Big Dripper size: 1 Gallon
-Various Vines and branches
 
cmc1786 said:
He arrived on Tuesday, and never ate or really moved much since then. Also, like I said the cage was random things lying around from other reptiles that I was going to try to use until this Thursday when all his new things arrive.

Thursday order from lllreptiles
-260 gallon basic Reptarium 29x29x72height
-Reptisun 5.0 uvb
-Zoo Med Big Dripper size: 1 Gallon
-Various Vines and branches
Click to expand...

Its sounds like he is settling in but i may be wrong. Wait for the other melleri experts to come here.

The things you ordered are great. But i would not keep him in there for a couple days even. Try to get a tall fake plant, put it in a room in your house and let him climb on it while your waiting for all the goodies to come
 
So let him sit on something like this fake tree I have in my den?



Also, is it alright to hold him for awhile or will that not help with him getting use to new situation and should I just let him be to himself till he is fully normal again? Can't resist taking him out of cage and having him walk from hand to hand.
 
WOW well that's great you already have a tree, Let him go on it. I am sure he like it and i think for now, it is better that you dont handle him to much. These chameleons are one of the most fragile chameleons of them all
 
Chameleon Info:
* Your Chameleon - Species = Meller,
sex = No idea
age = No idea
How long has it been in your care? 4-5 days
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Pretty often take him out for couple minutes and let him walk from hand to hand also took him out for couple hours to bring by vet earlier in the week
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Has not eaten till yesterday when I force fed him 8 crickets around noon. The crickets where gut loaded with a fluckers gut load product.
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I was just spraying the tank down with a mist bottle 3 times a day since Tuesday, Today I set up few cups with water and used needle to poke tiny hole in each, to make temporary drip system, and no I have not seen chameleon drink

* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? He has only goin once since Tuesday and have posted picture above. No, never been tested for parasites.

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Glass 40 gallon tank with screen top, 36 length x 18 width x 16 height
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Use a 60 watt heat lamp and run from 7am - 5pm, also set him up outside for little while during day in the shade.
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
The temperature goes up to 79-81.5 during day and down to 77 at night
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
I have the drip system as well as a large area shallow plate at bottom of tank with shallow water covering it and spray mist few times during day. Also, have a humidifier incase I could use it
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Yes, not sure what type there in picture
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? The cage is not near a vent but is located near a fan and in 1 bedroom apartment so I do pass by quite frequently and his tank is currently about 3 feet of ground both inside and outside so top of cage would be roughly 4 feet.
* Location - Where are you geographically located? Baton Rouge, Louisiana also here is weather clip for today
Weather Light rain
Mist
Precipitation last hour 0.01 inches
Temperature 75 F (24 C)
Dew Point 73 F (23 C)
Relative Humidity 94%


One last comment forgot to add when he arrived on Tuesday his nose horn thing was just unbelievably crooked is there anything to do about this or will he be fine
with a crooked nose horn thing
 
To me from the poorly focused photo, it looks like those urates are from a dehydrated lizard or one that has been through dehydration. Did he pass urates only or is there a stool somewhere?

WC melleri are often treated poorly at collectors, exporters, importers and dealers. They need a lot of water and have a strong preference for drinking water directly from the air (rain, mist).

I hate to say it, but don't get your hopes up (but keep fighting for this guy- if you can get him to pull through he'll show you he's worth the fight).

He probably won't drink from a drip system and spritzing his enclosure a few times a day isn't going to give him what he needs. He needs long periods of constant mist daily for a while to perk him up and bring him around. (as in a few hours of constant mist daily for a few weeks). This kind of misting is impossible in an aquarium tank without some sort of drainage system. He would probably feel a little less stressed if you had a taller and wider enclosure and allowed him to climb 4-6 feet from the floor height, either by a really tall enclosure or putting your enclosure up on a shelf or something.

Aim for ambient day temps in the 70s with a hot spot mid 80s, night temps below 70. They do better kept a little cooler rather than a little warmer if you have to err one way or the other.

WC Melleri usually come in heavily parasitized and otherwise sickly in addition to being weakened from stress and dehydration. You will want to get him cleaned up with help from a veterinarian ASAP as well if he is to make it. This will not be cheap and will be time consuming for the next few weeks and in the end the lizard may not make it.

Welcome to the world of imported melleri. Not trying to be a downer, but it looks like this guy will take a bit of work and money to come around and in the end you will either have one of the most wonderful chameleons in the world, or a dead lizard and a large vet bill and a new misting system.

I sincerely wish you good luck.

edit- oh yeah- horn will proabably stay crooked. If he survives acclimation it will probably be no problem for him, unless tissue damage from the original injury becomes a problem)...
 
Not Good at all...........

Hi there...I'm sure other Melleri keepers will see this later. I keep a group of WC Melleri and have gone through the acclimation process.

First of all, the animal is severely dehydrated. One look at the head with sunken casque and eyes says a lot. You need to address that first. Forget the food issue for today. You can do more harm than good in force feeding a dehydrated reptile. What are you force feeding with? You may be able to manually hydrate it with that. You need to put about 15 cc of water into him daily (judging by size in picture). You need to make sure that the syringe you use is placed beyond the glotis and that this is done very slowly so that the animal can swallow the water and not aspirate it into it's lungs.

Secondly this animal probably has some sort of parasite. Every one of my WC Melleri group had some form of parasite. When a reptile's health is compromised (for whatever reason) the parasites tend to overwhelm the reptile. You must get a fecal test done. You will not be able to bring this animal back to health if you don't address an underlying parasite issue.

Thirdly, you are putting too much moisture/humidity into that glass tank. This species is prone to fungus problems. Pay more attention to hydration/drinking than saturating his air and living quarters with water.

Lastly, I am surprised that LLL would send you something like that, especially when not requested. I have the highest regard for that company and buy lots of stuff from them. They have "given" you an animal that needs to go to the vet right away and will likely cost you some serious money to get it back to health. I see you live in Florida. There may be another Melleri keeper in this area that is willing to take on this rehab project. It is going to take some serious time, money and experience to get this animal healthy. The appearance of it in the full body photo is not very uplifting. It has started the downward spiral that will quickly turn into the death spiral if proper treatment is not given to it starting today.

I love Melleri. I think too many are being imported and put up for sale to the general public. They are something that should end up in the hands of experienced keepers. It's a very tough learning curve to become an experienced keeper. Please keep us updated! You and your new aquisition are in my thoughts and prayers.
 
After reading pardalis girl's comments I just wanted to clarify that while I recommend mist a few hours per day for a few weeks for rehydration, I agree with her that you do not want a constantly damp environment. It is important to let things dry out completely after the misting if you choose misting rather than force-watering with a syringe. Get rid of the humidifier.

I feel long periods of daily misting has some advantages over the syringe watering when it comes to stress management, but without major modifications of your current enclosure (or better yet switching to an entirely new enclosure), misting like I am recommending is impossible.

One thing I have found when bringing chameleons back from the brink is that it seems to help with stress management is to take care of everything in one go rather than several times per day. I take care of force feeding, medications, and whatever else all in one go, and I do it right before lights go out so the lizard only has to deal with being messed with once per day and then can sleep it off so most of the next day can be free of stress from my handling, opening mouth, sliding syringe in, etc. I haven't really done much with trying to rehydrate by syringe, so maybe the 15 ccs are to be spread out during the day and my tip is not applicable.

Also be careful- you dont' want to drown the lizard so push water in slowly and take your time and if some appears at the corners of the mouth stop immediately and put the lizard on a branch with head elevated slightly.

Really you would benefit greatly from some veterinary guidance if you aren't experienced in this sort of thing...
 
I appreciate all the tips, have actually started to give him water yesterday with syringe but had no idea would need 15cc. I will go ahead and focus on that today and dry out the aquarium since it really is way to watery. On a good note after putting his tank outside this morning had a little rain shower and came back to check on him and he is now keeping his eyes open which is exciting but he has yet to eat.

Also, needed to correct statement I saw someone mention, the chameleon was not ordered from lllreptiles actually found out about the place after getting my chameleon and mentioned it in the sence that where I ordered all the new items and cage for the little guy.

Also, I brought the guy to the vet on Friday and they said he looked dehydrated and malnutrioned and there only real recommendation was to focus on his habitat and see if he came around and if not to bring him back.


On a final note I thought my caiman would be the expensive, time consuming pet, all I have to say now is wow the caiman are a beginner reptile pet compared to the complicated chameleon lifestyle.

One last question should I use pedialyte mixed with water or just stick to water to administer to him. And you mentioned to focus on just the dehydration and not worry about food, how long can he be alright without food? Just wondering how long I should focus just on hydration before concerning myself with giving him food.

Thank you so much, the chameleon really means alot to me and hope more then anything can pull through this and appreciate the wonderful help!
 
More comments.......

About how many inches from snout to vent is your Melleri? Do you have any way of weighing it in grams? That would really help us figure out how big it is. Did the vet weigh it? You can call their office and find out the results if they did (and they should have). I may adjust that 15cc amount of water down.

I would give it that much on the first day of manual hydration even if it take two sessions. It must be done slowly and carefully. And like the person before me said.....stop if it appears to be backing up into the mouth. After today 10cc will be ok. You could give a few cc of Pedialyte first and then the rest of the cc in plain water. The thing I worry about is the Pedialyte being aspirated into the lungs or nasal areas. Aspiration of plain water is bad and aspiration of anything other than water is worse. So give it the Pedialyte, what a few minutes to make sure it goes down and then do the water.

Today, worry about the water. Tomorrow you can give it some more liquid food. Food is not good for the kidneys if the animal is dehydrated. That's why hydration is the first thing to take care of. You can reduce the plain water amount by any water amount you feel is in the liquid food. As suggested I would do it in one session to keep the stress down. But make the session long enough that you get the stuff down slowly. If anything, food or water seems to back up stop and adjust the amount downwards the next time.

Is your vet experienced in chameleons? Did he/she suggest a fecal? You really need to do one. Since your vet has already seen the cham you should be able to drop off the fecal at your convenience. Although the parasite testing and potential parasites are pretty much the same as dog/cat parasites it would be best if you deal with a vet that has chameleon experience.

Keep us posted....
 
Thanks for clarifying that animal was NOT from us. That is not something we would EVER do, and I am sorry someone sent you that just as a "bonus"

Mellers are VERY difficult to care for. They are awesome animals, but as everyone on here knows, almost all of them are WC, and are a risky purchase to say the least. Those going into a Mellers usually know that. Sounds like this was just thrown on you, and you are doing a great job picking up the right caging supplies for it.

Again - thanks for clarifying that we didn't send it to you, and if you have any questions, feel free to contact us for advice, as we have been dealing with Melleri for a very long time (or PM me on here, and I will get back to you as well). Good luck!

Scott
LLLReptile & Supply
www.LLLReptile.com
 
where in florida do you live??

if you live by me I would be more than glad to help you out with your mellers
and work on some projects with you to help taking care of this melleri easier
i know quite a bit about mellers

and i can take you to a GREAT chameleon vet around my area
 
Update: adminstered the water from syring at about 1cc every 30 seconds pace and gave him a breather every 3cc's, just kind of made up this timing but seemed to work perfectly. Just walked outside to check on the guy and low and behold he has a cricket half chewed in his mouth. Hopefully everything will go uphill from here espicially since I haven't slept in about 40 hours due to watching him. Will post pictures later today.
 
jamncristian said:
where in florida do you live??

if you live by me I would be more than glad to help you out with your mellers
and work on some projects with you to help taking care of this melleri easier
i know quite a bit about mellers

and i can take you to a GREAT chameleon vet around my area
Click to expand...

yea where in FL do u live?
 
cmc1786 said:
Update: adminstered the water from syring at about 1cc every 30 seconds pace and gave him a breather every 3cc's, just kind of made up this timing but seemed to work perfectly. Just walked outside to check on the guy and low and behold he has a cricket half chewed in his mouth. Hopefully everything will go uphill from here espicially since I haven't slept in about 40 hours due to watching him. Will post pictures later today.
Click to expand...

I was going to chime in toward the beginning of this thread, but it seemed that Fluxlizard and PardalisGirl had everything covered and no need to beat a dead horse, as I was going to just reiterate what they said. But it's glad to hear that there may be some progress. :) Melleris are a different cham altogether but as Fluxlizard said, they are certainly worth giving it your all for them to pull through and they are an incredibly rewarding species. Good luck and keep up the the great work. Please update us on his/her progress. (and get a little sleep...:)).
 
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