Cross Breeding Panthers

T

Treyton

New Member
I was just wondering if you are able to cross breed panther chameleons? I would like a which I am getting a female in December and I have found some nosy b close to wear I live and I am wondering if you can cross breed the two species since they are both panthers

Thanks for your help :)
 
Treyton said:
I was just wondering if you are able to cross breed panther chameleons? I would like a which I am getting a female in December and I have found some nosy b close to wear I live and I am wondering if you can cross breed the two species since they are both panthers

Thanks for your help :)
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yes you can, just be sure to keep track of their lineage for future breeding :)
 
This question comes up often, I suggest using the search feature. However, long story short it is not recommended unless you know what you are doing.
 
You might get a lot of response, might not. This is a heavily debated topic. Short answer: Yes. You can mix different locales of panthers. If you are not an experienced breeder, might want to reconsider. I would recommend you do a "Search" of the forums on this, there is A LOT of information regarding cross breeding vs. keeping pure lines.

If you are serious about breeding anything, you need to do A LOT of research and do it properly. Talk to some of the respected breeders on the forum. Kammerflage Creations do a lot of cross breeding and so far as I can tell do it well. Please make sure you are ready for the commitment to possible 60 hungry mouths to feed! They eat a lot from what I have read on this forum! Again, there is a ton of great information on the forums. Take advantage of it and make sure you are truly ready to breed, let alone cross breed - in my opinion crossing locales requires more responsibility than pure breeding, not just for consumers but for the well being of the captive bred population.
 
The value of cross bred chameleons are a lot lower than pure breds. Most people do not like to have a "mutt" feeling. I personally like crosses and think they look great, but they are looked down upon by many members.

When breeding these, you have to remember than it can mess up many breeding projects when you sell them away. For example, all Panther females look the same, no matter what locale. If you have lets say, an Ambilobe x Nosy Faly female, you could pass it for any locale. Whether it be Ambanja, Nosy Faly, Nosy Be, Ambilobe, etc.... When the seller buys it planning to breed it with his lets say Ambilobe, he will think he has pure Ambilobes, and claim the babies are 100% Ambilobe, when in reality they are only 50% Ambilobe. Then the cycle will repeat. See where i'm getting at? This is why it is very important to keep down somewhere who the sires and dames are (Mothers and fathers). That way this huge mix up won't happen.
 
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Yes, you absolutely can. But if you're looking to do it for profit, I'm sorry to say that you won't make a dime in profit! lol Between feeding the babies and whatnot, you won't make any money back. And crosses are always sold for less, especially the little females.

I bought a female cross because I wanted a pet "girlfriend" to go with my cross male, but it's rare for people to want pet females. So those will be harder to find new homes for.
 
 
yes, you can. There are a few issues.
1. Alot of people frown on it, and are paranoid about the females as they can easily be lied and pretend to be pure bred.
2. Females are practically worthless, and males aren't worth nearly as much as the pure bred version.
 
tkilgour said:
Yes you can cross different locales of panthers. However, did you see the controversy that my Nosy Faly has caused? Here is the link:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/update-my-raiden-faly-70116/index4.html#post653125

I originally purchased a Faly, as did many others. Now it is questionable if mine is a pure Faly, and a lot of controversy has developed because of it. This is kind of why people frown on crosses in the chameleon community.
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yea when it comes to cross breeding people get pissy. I think cross breedings fine, they say its tainting the bloodline, but i think its creating new, beautiful types of coloration. People fear of change, maybe they should just go with it
 
bechsgaard said:
yea when it comes to cross breeding people get pissy. I think cross breedings fine, they say its tainting the bloodline, but i think its creating new, beautiful types of coloration. People fear of change, maybe they should just go with it
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some of it is not about degrading the crosses...but another respectable point is that some would like to preserve the pure locale chams we have and keep having them so that future generations of people can see what we see today that came from madagascar, and what if we stop gettting imports? if all of them are crosses then we wont have anything to compare of what is what and to just keeping most pure is a sign of respect what nature created on its own. just my thoughts

i personally do not mind crosses, i like them too something different, but i like a balance of both cross and pures
 
I completely agree with Ace. I own a cross, I love him dearly. But, I do not plan on breeding him. Of certain locales I think the pure lines are safe, of others not so much. I think ppl need to be really careful not to overdue the crosses just because they think they are going to come up with the next big "thing". Certain locales...Mitsio, Faly, Ankaramy...etc are too rare to even consider crossing at this point. When you cant touch a breeding pair of Mitsio in the states for under a grand...it is a no-brainer to work on the PURE captive bred population first.
 
they all used to look very different, hundreds of years ago, i bet there was no nosy faly, just nosy be, maybe ambilobe was the result of mixing different locales. I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular
 
bechsgaard said:
they all used to look very different, hundreds of years ago, i bet there was no nosy faly, just nosy be, maybe ambilobe was the result of mixing different locales. I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular
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Do you have photos of any offspring? I'd be curious to see!
 
bechsgaard said:
they all used to look very different, hundreds of years ago, i bet there was no nosy faly, just nosy be, maybe ambilobe was the result of mixing different locales. I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular
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Dan,

You might want to read up some of the old threads on what makes a locale and check out some of the work Gary Ferguson has done on the evolution of locales.

Chris
 
Ekaj13 said:
This question comes up often, I suggest using the search feature. However, long story short it is not recommended unless you know what you are doing.
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this is what causes further confusion in the future when breeding and knowing locale...i dont reccomend it as it ends up just making mixed mutts that have no true lineage...i am purposfully working on making "real" true blue bar ambilobes..and it pisses me off when i look for females, and they are all crap crosses!!..please keep their lines pure!!:D


dont breed random dogs together just cause you want cute puppies, do the research, spend the money, and keep the blood lines as pure as possible..
 
bechsgaard said:
they all used to look very different, hundreds of years ago, i bet there was no nosy faly, just nosy be, maybe ambilobe was the result of mixing different locales. I breed my mitsio with my faly and the results are beautiful, i easily sell both males and females to pet stores, perhaps for not as much, but they are becoming popular
Click to expand...

I hate to read stuff like this when I cant even find any mitsio females in the states.

And I have to disagree with your statement above. Evolution takes 100's if not 1000's of yrs to incur a real change in a species. And how can you just throw out the statement that nosy be's were present a 100 yrs ago but ambilobe, nosy falys, etc.... were not? Where are you coming up with that stuff?
 
Texas Panther Man said:
I hate to read stuff like this when I cant even find any mitsio females in the states.

And I have to disagree with your statement above. Evolution takes 100's if not 1000's of yrs to incur a real change in a species. And how can you just throw out the statement that nosy be's were present a 100 yrs ago but ambilobe, nosy falys, etc.... were not? Where are you coming up with that stuff?
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if you really want them just get some from the UK, or shipped from the wild, i did this, although the shipping is pricy and alot of the WC ones died, it helped get new blood lines. Screameleons has some new bloodlines in the states i think
 
bechsgaard said:
yea when it comes to cross breeding people get pissy. I think cross breedings fine, they say its tainting the bloodline, but i think its creating new, beautiful types of coloration. People fear of change, maybe they should just go with it
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:rolleyes: i have nothing against crosses they look awesome, breed what you want to.. it isnt a fear of change its wanting to preserve the colors that made me want to breed them, not creating a new its saving what was.;)
the faly bred to a mitsio made me think i had read this before so i looked at your threads an seems youve addressed this a few times already havent you?
https://www.chameleonforums.com/inter-species-panther-cham-breeding-68778/
an theres another..
 
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bechsgaard said:
if you really want them just get some from the UK, or shipped from the wild, i did this, although the shipping is pricy and alot of the WC ones died, it helped get new blood lines. Screameleons has some new bloodlines in the states i think
Click to expand...

Ok trying not to be a pain but not everyone can just "get some from the UK" and I have a problem with ppl continuing to support WC just because you can.
We should not be depending on WC animals to support our hobby! They should be brought in as needed by experienced breeders to better the captive population.
My other problem with the statements you have made is exactly why ppl worry about cross breeding "I sell my crosses with no problem to a pet store" right there is the HUGE issue with this! You have no idea what the pet store is telling ppl. I am sure they sell them as "Panther Chameleon" then you have ppl buying your crosses and trying to breed there by mixing the lines even more. You see all the time ppl on here asking "does anyone know what kind of chameleon this is?" or "what locale is this?" cuz they got them from a pet store and the store had no clue.
We just have to be smarter. Evolution on its own takes thousands of years, not 20min in a cage with some pretty colored critters.
 
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