Panther Losing Strength . . .

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - Believe this guy to be an Ambilobe panther, though he was purchased as a female Nosy Be.
Handling - Rarely - when cleaning cages, or taking outside for sunshine & photography (Just once, a few days ago).
Feeding - Primarily crickets & supers, gutloaded with mixed dry ingredients, oranges, carrots, collards, dandelion greens, etc...
Supplements - Daily calcium cricket-dusting using ExoTerra plain calcium, Sunday dusting alternates between ReptiCal D-3 and Reptivite. Every now and again (1-2x/month) they get some Repashy "leopard gecko" or a mix my son uses for his bearded dragons, which includes things like probiotics as well as calcium/vitamins.
Watering - I run a "little dripper" each morning for the time it takes me to shower and dress, and hand-mist until the foliage is dripping each evening. The cham in question drinks well - I probably see this guy drinking more often than any other of my group.
Fecal Description - Dark brown feces, white urate - little bit of orange where the two meet.
History - Purchased at White Plains Expo in July, healthy since. Currently about 4-6? months old, if I had to guess.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - ReptiBreeze "large"; 18 x 18 x 36"
Lighting - Lights in a ZooMed double fixture, halogen basking light and ExoTerra 150 UVB, as well as a daylight tube in a separate fixture overhead.
Temperature - Cage floor: 73f, basking: 83f, measured today with a tempgun. Have been using a smaller bulb during the heat of summer, larger ones in reserve for cooler weather coming. NTL drops to ambient - about 65f during winter, but whatever it is outside overnight in summertime.
Humidity - Haven't got a way of measuring humidity at the moment - but with live plants (pothos) and papertowl substrate, along with morning drippage and afternoon misting (and southern New England summertime!) it probably varies from 50-90%.
Plants - Pothos in this cage.
Placement - Cage is in the living room, but for most of the day there's nobody home. Top of cage is just about 6.5 feet from the floor - I have to look up to see it, and I'm 6/2"
Location - Southwestern Connecticut, U.S.A.


Current Problem - He's lost most or all of his strength - and that's about the only symptom I can see. He seemed to have a slight eye infection about a week and a half ago, we administered some eyewash and antibiotic/antiprotozoal that my son had for his beardies, and the little guy seemed right as rain within a couple of days. Recently, I noticed that crickets were going uneaten, sleeping was ... odd - took him out to check, and he just seemed to have no grip. This morning, woke up to find him sleeping hanging by just his tail! His colors look good, he's looking about fairly alertly (though taking short naps through the day), but not able to move about well. Gave him some probiotic / vitamin / calcium / water mixture this morning (2x 2cc? I think?) which doesn't seem to be helping. Not sure when I can get him to a vet, as most of the next several days will be taken up with funeral stuff for my wife, who passed away on Wednesday.

My thanks in advance for any insights you may be able to offer . . .

~Bruce

Finally got the photos out of my card reader!

Also, since the previous post, gave Cyrill another (0.2cc) dose of the soggy supplements, as well as a fresh-moulted superworm which he ate while in my hands. No tongue action, just opened his mouth and let me put it in, then chewed and swallowed.

Photos attached (if I can get it to work) of Cyrill, his setup, and the cham setup overall.

I just wanted to say that I'm very sorry for your loss. I can only imagine what you're going through.

I also hope your chameleon makes a full recovery.

First, I am very sorry that your wife has died.

Generally, your husbandry looks very good.

What should be changed is that there should be something between each cage to prevent the chams from seeing each other. Chams are territorial creatures and they do become stressed just by seeing other chams from whose view they can't escape.

One very strong possibility which comes to mind is internal parasites.
He may have had them already when you bought him or acquired them since then.

They do their dirty work unseen and definitely can cause weakness and appetite loss, as well as creating nutritional deficiencies and sometimes internal bleeding or intestinal or organ damage.
A fecal sample is analyzed by the vet for evidence of parasites.
A vet may be (or may not) simply analyze a fresh sample for you if you explain the extraordinary circumstances in your life right now.
Your cham could then be brought in for a full exam at a later date or for a very quick emergency visit.
The treatment is usually oral antiparasitic medication.


Next, I wonder if the supplements for the beardies and the gecko contain too much D3 for a cham---leading to a vitamin A deficiency and calcium deficiency, since too much D3 leads to too little A and calcium.
These three nutrients have to be in a balance of sorts. Or perhaps there is too much A, creating a Vitamin D defifiency and too low calcium absorption as a result.
Also, Reptivite comes in 2 versions; 1 without D3 and the other with D3, so he may be getting extra D3 there, too.

It is also very possible that just a couple of days of eyewash got rid of the eye portion of a sinus infection but the sinuses still are infected.
Chams typically take a couple of weeks ot longer to fully recover from an infection.
An ongoing respiratory infection will cause weakness, too.
Eye infections can also be the result of Vitamin A deficiencies.

He really will need a vet visit with a vet familiar with reptiles, if not chams.

A fecal sample can be collected and then stroed in baggies in the fridge for a day or so until it can be brought to the vet for analysis.

Again, I'm terribly sorry for your loss and hope that this reply adds knowledge , rather than confusion.

MelissaB and Lovereps, thank you both.

I should have mentioned that since the rack photo was shot, I've cut up a shower curtain and hung it between each cage. (I have seen the male veiled snuggle up to the wall and give the ladies in the next cage a shadow-show, though!) They've only gotten the beardie supplements once or twice over the summer, so I'd think their effects are fairly minimal. I could be wrong though - I've been wrong about _lots_ of stuff, and expect to be wrong about lots more.

There's a terrific exotic vet just up the road a bit - I'll see if & when I can get an appointment for a fecal or more.

Thanks again, both of you.

~Bruce

You don't have any red lights or night lights on do you?
People are often wrongly told that they should use these with chams and what happens is the cham becomes sleep deprived from the nighttime light and gets sick.

The ExoTerra 150 UVB was really designed for beardies and compact uvb bulbs put out their uvb in a rather focused area.
It may be that the bulb is too strong and irritates his eyes, so he closes them and then doesn't eat and has been getting weaker..
It will do him no harm to turn it off for a 2 or 3 days and see if he becomes more active and keeps his eyes open.

Finally, I just realized that another likely possibility is that the "antibiotic/antiprotozoal" was overdosed or was too tough on him. It sounds like it may have been Flagyl/Metronidazole, which must be used very carefully with chams, as it easily causes serious problems.

Hopefully the vet can sort things out and get him on the road to recovery.

Sorry if this is a barrage of possibilities.

Wishing you and your family well.

Thank you for your further thoughts, Lovereps.

No red lights - though when we have guests sleeping over, as some family are doing now, I sometimes leave the blue "moonlights" on in the fishtank across the room.

I'll give turning off the UVB for a day or three a try - though he seems willing to eat, and certainly isn't emaciated. (Can just about make out his pelvic bones.) For the most part, his eyes are open, looking around in a casual sort of way . . .

When I held him to give him the supplement mix & superworm, he just didn't offer to grip much, holding all four feet up in that "kung-fu" pose while laying on his belly.

~Bruce

Just wanted to tell you how sorry I am for your loss. Hope the best for you and your family.

Sorry to read about both your ill Cham, and your wife.

So very sorry that you lost your wife. May I ask how old she was? I lost my husband suddenly six years ago and sometimes it seems like it was last week. I hope you have many good memories of her to keep in your heart.

As for your chameleon...i wish I had an answer for you. IMHO he needs to see a vet ASAP and I know you have your wife's funeral to deal with so it won't be easy.

You and your family and chameleon are in my thoughts.

I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your wife. I wish you, your family and your Cham all the best.

Hi, Kinyonga - she was 61. Please accept my condolences for your own loss.

Thank you, Everyone.

~Bruce