Young Veiled F Cham is sleeping a lot, squinting eyes and rubbing her eyes against the screen

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

Hi! I am a first-time cham owner and have been struggling to find accurate info, I swear every question I ask has twelve different answers and the pet store owners are clueless, some cham breeders I met at a reptile expo all had different advice for me. Now Pascal, my cham, isn't acting herself. I'm honestly super frustrated and confused, I just want a straightforward guide on how to care for Pascal and help her through whatever is bothering her.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled, has been under my care for about three weeks. Unsure of exact age.
• Handling - Somewhat often, three times a week, as per suggestion from a panther breeder at a reptile expo.
• Feeding - I have been struggling a bit with feeding since for some reason crickets have been sold out in my area (I don't believe I can order live ones online either) So her diet has been a bit crazy, mealworms and super worms have made up a lot of her meals, though I did manage to track down a few crickets at a reptile expo for her to enjoy for about a week, last week.
  Supplements - Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 Reptile Supplement every feeding, after doing more research, I've already placed an order for Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins which I'm told she needs twice a month
• Watering - I have a dripper on top, though I've had to turn it off whenever I sleep since it's been flooding her cage. I use just a spray bottle to mist. I used to mist only twice a day (morning and night) for a good minute (I read somewhere that too much moisture was bad for them) though since this problem, I've been misting almost five times a day for a solid three minutes until everything is soaked.
• Fecal Description - It does look yellowy, which means dehydration which is why I've been misting so often.
• History - I purchased her from PetCo (yeah, I know, I know.) She has been acting fine until about three days ago.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Medium, 16 x 16 x 30 inches
• Lighting - Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Tropical Compact Fluorescent Bulb, and Zoo Med Daylight Blue Reptile Lamp. (I've heard the kit I purchased has inadequate lighting, though I've been given different answers when I ask what is the correct light, so I've just been using the kit bulbs)
• Temperature - bounces between 55-60 at night, and 78-85 at day.
• Humidity - I currently don't have a way to measure this, sorry!
• Plants - I have one live Pothose plant and a collection of fake plants (Again, I've been given conflicting reports of whether plastic is safe. She hasn't tried to eat any plants so for the time being, I'm not too worried.)
• Placement - On the tall part of my dresser in my bedroom
• Location - Coastal Texas

Current Problem - For the past three or so days, she's been sleeping a lot. Her eyes have been squinting frequently as well as bubbling up (Self-cleaning). I haven't noticed any leakage or debris in her eyes. She has also been hiding at the lower part of the cage, sleeping down there during the day (She feels so cold whenever I catch her down there So I usually pick her up and place her on her basking branch when I find her like this.) This is unusual since she's obsessed with being at the highest point possible, only ever climbing down to hunt. Overall she's just been a bit slow unless disturbed (she's still just as fast running away from me -_-), and I'm really worried about her. She's still eating and drinking normally.

 

[Beman]

Hi! I am a first-time cham owner and have been struggling to find accurate info, I swear every question I ask has twelve different answers and the pet store owners are clueless, some cham breeders I met at a reptile expo all had different advice for me. Now Pascal, my cham, isn't acting herself. I'm honestly super frustrated and confused, I just want a straightforward guide on how to care for Pascal and help her through whatever is bothering her.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled, has been under my care for about three weeks. Unsure of exact age.
• Handling - Somewhat often, three times a week, as per suggestion from a panther breeder at a reptile expo.
• Feeding - I have been struggling a bit with feeding since for some reason crickets have been sold out in my area (I don't believe I can order live ones online either) So her diet has been a bit crazy, mealworms and super worms have made up a lot of her meals, though I did manage to track down a few crickets at a reptile expo for her to enjoy for about a week, last week.
  Supplements - Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 Reptile Supplement every feeding, after doing more research, I've already placed an order for Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins which I'm told she needs twice a month
• Watering - I have a dripper on top, though I've had to turn it off whenever I sleep since it's been flooding her cage. I use just a spray bottle to mist. I used to mist only twice a day (morning and night) for a good minute (I read somewhere that too much moisture was bad for them) though since this problem, I've been misting almost five times a day for a solid three minutes until everything is soaked.
• Fecal Description - It does look yellowy, which means dehydration which is why I've been misting so often.
• History - I purchased her from PetCo (yeah, I know, I know.) She has been acting fine until about three days ago.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Medium, 16 x 16 x 30 inches
• Lighting - Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Tropical Compact Fluorescent Bulb, and Zoo Med Daylight Blue Reptile Lamp. (I've heard the kit I purchased has inadequate lighting, though I've been given different answers when I ask what is the correct light, so I've just been using the kit bulbs)
• Temperature - bounces between 55-60 at night, and 78-85 at day.
• Humidity - I currently don't have a way to measure this, sorry!
• Plants - I have one live Pothose plant and a collection of fake plants (Again, I've been given conflicting reports of whether plastic is safe. She hasn't tried to eat any plants so for the time being, I'm not too worried.)
• Placement - On the tall part of my dresser in my bedroom
• Location - Coastal Texas

Current Problem - For the past three or so days, she's been sleeping a lot. Her eyes have been squinting frequently as well as bubbling up (Self-cleaning). I haven't noticed any leakage or debris in her eyes. She has also been hiding at the lower part of the cage, sleeping down there during the day (She feels so cold whenever I catch her down there So I usually pick her up and place her on her basking branch when I find her like this.) This is unusual since she's obsessed with being at the highest point possible, only ever climbing down to hunt. Overall she's just been a bit slow unless disturbed (she's still just as fast running away from me -_-), and I'm really worried about her. She's still eating and drinking normally.

Hi there welcome to the forum... I will go through your husbandry form... Give me a bit of time.

 

[Beman]

See my info in red bold... This is going to be a lot of information. I promise you will get correct info here and the links we give you for resources are correct as well. I can tell you received a lot of incorrect info. So I will go through everything for you. Ask questions please.


Hi! I am a first-time cham owner and have been struggling to find accurate info, I swear every question I ask has twelve different answers and the pet store owners are clueless, some cham breeders I met at a reptile expo all had different advice for me. So extremely common in this hobby. Lots of people end up where you are now. Now Pascal, my cham, isn't acting herself. I'm honestly super frustrated and confused, I just want a straightforward guide on how to care for Pascal and help her through whatever is bothering her.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled, has been under my care for about three weeks. Unsure of exact age.
• Handling - Somewhat often, three times a week, as per suggestion from a panther breeder at a reptile expo. Try not to hold her... RIght now she is compromised from incorrect husbandry... Holding her can cause unneeded stress.
• Feeding - I have been struggling a bit with feeding since for some reason crickets have been sold out in my area (I don't believe I can order live ones online either) So her diet has been a bit crazy, mealworms and super worms have made up a lot of her meals, though I did manage to track down a few crickets at a reptile expo for her to enjoy for about a week, last week. Yes you can order them online. www.rainbowmealworms.com. She should be eating about 2 dozen small insects every day. 1/4 inch crickets would be a good size to buy. You can have them shipped overnight so you have them faster.
  Supplements - Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3 Reptile Supplement every feeding, after doing more research, I've already placed an order for Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins which I'm told she needs twice a month. Ok you want a plain phosphorus free calcium without D3. So the one you are using is overdosing her. Need to replace it with No D3. Then You would use a multivitamin with A and D3 two times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Reptivite with D3 version is good for this. New supplements would be a get asap.
• Watering - I have a dripper on top, though I've had to turn it off whenever I sleep since it's been flooding her cage. I use just a spray bottle to mist. I used to mist only twice a day (morning and night) for a good minute (I read somewhere that too much moisture was bad for them) though since this problem, I've been misting almost five times a day for a solid three minutes until everything is soaked. Turn the dripper off at night. You only need to run this during the day... Get a drip pan for this cage that you can either plumb into a bucket or wet vac. This one already has the hook up for pvc to a bucket. Will work for the adult size cage of 2x2x4ft. Misting 3 times a day 3 minutes is fine.
• Fecal Description - It does look yellowy, which means dehydration which is why I've been misting so often. So it can be 50% yellow and she can still be hydrated.
• History - I purchased her from PetCo (yeah, I know, I know.) She has been acting fine until about three days ago. I think it is due to her set up that she is declining. Petco does not automatically mean your doomed.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Medium, 16 x 16 x 30 inches You will need a 24x24x48 size enclosure.
• Lighting - Zoo Med ReptiSun 5.0 UVB Tropical Compact Fluorescent Bulb, and Zoo Med Daylight Blue Reptile Lamp. (I've heard the kit I purchased has inadequate lighting, though I've been given different answers when I ask what is the correct light, so I've just been using the kit bulbs) Ok right now you want to see if any of the pet stores near you carry a T5HO fixture with a 5.0 or 6% UVB bulb. Petco does carry them in the zoomed brand. And Petsmart is now carrying arcadia brand ProT5 fixture. If you can get a 24 inch fixture that is great. ProT5 by arcadia with a 6% bulb or Reptisun T5HO fixture with a 5.0 UVB bulb. This is the major cause of her decline. The compact bulbs only put out UVB a few inches below the bulb itself. She has to have this to live which is why you are seeing the decline all the sudden. Either of these fixture types and bulb strengths would sit directly on the top of the cage then you want vines or branches placed no closer than 8-9 inches below the fixture. This will put her in the correct UVB level.
• Temperature - bounces between 55-60 at night, and 78-85 at day. These are fine. Keep in mind females you want to stick closer to the 80 mark for basking.
• Humidity - I currently don't have a way to measure this, sorry! Gonna need to get a hygrometer for this. It is an important aspect of their husbandry. 30-50% daytime for this species.
• Plants - I have one live Pothose plant and a collection of fake plants (Again, I've been given conflicting reports of whether plastic is safe. She hasn't tried to eat any plants so for the time being, I'm not too worried.) Ok every single fake and silk plant you need to pull out. They are not safe at all. Go to home depot or lowes inside plant nursery.... Look for Veiled tested plants from the image below. Lots of plants is fine. You want height in the cage as well. The fake silk ones can bleed the color they dye them with. which she could in turn drink
• Placement - On the tall part of my dresser in my bedroom
• Location - Coastal Texas

Current Problem - For the past three or so days, she's been sleeping a lot. Her eyes have been squinting frequently as well as bubbling up (Self-cleaning). I haven't noticed any leakage or debris in her eyes. She has also been hiding at the lower part of the cage, sleeping down there during the day (She feels so cold whenever I catch her down there So I usually pick her up and place her on her basking branch when I find her like this.) This is unusual since she's obsessed with being at the highest point possible, only ever climbing down to hunt. Overall she's just been a bit slow unless disturbed (she's still just as fast running away from me -_-), and I'm really worried about her. She's still eating and drinking normally.

So UVB needs to be replaced asap for the correct version. Get calcium without D3 as well. This is another big one causing an issue. Replace for live plants... Really important for watering.

Once you have this stuff sorted we can go through what a female will need as she matures. There are a few husbandry aspects that much change for little girls to control their clutch sizes. They will lay eggs even when they are not bred.
Good sites to learn from besides us here in the forum. Chameleon Academy https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/
Neptune the Chameleon https://www.neptunethechameleon.com/

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

Thank you so much! and I apologize for my ignorance with chams. I'll grab the light on my way home today and take out those fake plants. Thank you so much for this simplification, like I said I've just felt so overwhelmed with all the info I've found online and in person. I'll post an update on her in a couple of days or so.

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

Thank you so much! and I apologize for my ignorance with chams. I'll grab the light on my way home today and take out those fake plants. Thank you so much for this simplification, like I said I've just felt so overwhelmed with all the info I've found online and in person. I'll post an update on her in a couple of days or so.

Also, sorry I just realized I made a mistake, my current supplement DOESN'T have D3.

 

[Beman]

Also, sorry I just realized I made a mistake, my current supplement DOESN'T have D3.

If it is the calcium without D3 then that is the one you want. Check the reptivite you bought that one should have the d3 and it is the multivitamin that you only use 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th.

Thank you so much! and I apologize for my ignorance with chams. I'll grab the light on my way home today and take out those fake plants. Thank you so much for this simplification, like I said I've just felt so overwhelmed with all the info I've found online and in person. I'll post an update on her in a couple of days or so.

Your welcome... Please let me know if you have any questions. If they only have the t5HO fixture options I gave you in a 10.0 or 12% get it. I can tell you how to set this bulb strength up. or the 5.0 and 6%. Just do not buy anything else. And nothing that says shadedweller.

 

[Gloriawood]

I just wanna say hi and welcome! You got a cutie there! Beman is fantastic and you are in great hands with her. Do not be afraid to ask questions even if it’s something we already covered and you need clarification. Many of us started just like you. This is a judgement free zone! We are here to help you and your baby welcome to the chamily! I hope you stick around and we get to see this gal grow!

 

[CalamityCrow]

Popping in to say welcome too!! The folks here are so very helpful and non-judgmental. You're doing the right thing by asking for help and I promise you're getting the correct info here. It's all based on extensive research and Chameleon Academy is run by Bill Strand, who has been a successful keeper of MANY cham species for DECADES. He knows what he's talking about and so do the folks here. Keep us updated on your sweet little girl, and thank you so much for learning so you can do right by her.

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

I just wanna say hi and welcome! You got a cutie there! Beman is fantastic and you are in great hands with her. Do not be afraid to ask questions even if it’s something we already covered and you need clarification. Many of us started just like you. This is a judgement free zone! We are here to help you and your baby welcome to the chamily! I hope you stick around and we get to see this gal grow!

Thank you all for being so sweet, I'm glad to feel this welcomed in the community!

I purchased and set up the light last night and even found some crickets in my search. I had the light on for a couple of hours last night and I turned it on again after I woke up this morning so hopefully when I get home she should be a bit better, in your opinion, when do y'all think she will perk up? Her eyes were a lot more open this morning but she was still kinda slow (which could just be her being sleepy too)

I also removed all the plastic plants like you said, I'm going to lowes next week when I get my paycheck to buy more real ones that were on the safe plant sheet. You didn't mention the fake vines, are they ok to use with her?

 

[TheMotherChameleon]

I would not use fake anything veileds are known to eat plants and if she ate a plastic plant she could get impacted

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

I would not use fake anything veileds are known to eat plants and if she ate a plastic plant she could get impacted

Ok, thank you. I'll remove them as soon as possible then.

 

[Beman]

Thank you all for being so sweet, I'm glad to feel this welcomed in the community!

I purchased and set up the light last night and even found some crickets in my search. I had the light on for a couple of hours last night and I turned it on again after I woke up this morning so hopefully when I get home she should be a bit better, in your opinion, when do y'all think she will perk up? Her eyes were a lot more open this morning but she was still kinda slow (which could just be her being sleepy too)

I also removed all the plastic plants like you said, I'm going to lowes next week when I get my paycheck to buy more real ones that were on the safe plant sheet. You didn't mention the fake vines, are they ok to use with her?

Can you take a pic of what you bought just so I can double check it for you? It can take a few days to a week to see a difference with the new UVB.

Per fake vines you can use the flukers brand. Stay away from moss vines and the black jungle vines.

 

[Beman]

I would not use fake anything veileds are known to eat plants and if she ate a plastic plant she could get impacted

You can use certain fake vines.

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

You can use certain fake vines.

I currently have the Naturalistic Flora™ – Flexible Hanging Vine, is that ok?

 

[Beman]

I currently have the Naturalistic Flora™ – Flexible Hanging Vine, is that ok?

Yes that one is fine for now while she is little. It will be too small of a grip diameter as she matures though.

If you can take a picture of the packaging from the UVB Fixture I can double check it for you.

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

Yes that one is fine for now while she is little. It will be too small of a grip diameter as she matures though.

If you can take a picture of the packaging from the UVB Fixture I can double check it for you.

Ok, I'm about to take exams right now, so I can't take a picture right now, but I'll send a photo as soon as I get home! I will say, that the T5 models were nowhere to be found in the three pet stores I went to, but I did put an order in online. For the time being, I purchased a T8 ReptiSun® 5.0 UVB Fluorescent Bulb, I hope that's a good substitute for now, I was scrolling through the forms and from what I can understand, it just doesn't penetrate a cage all the way, but I know my current cage for her is kinda small (will replace that soon!) so I was hoping it would be ok for now?

 

[Beman]

Ok, I'm about to take exams right now, so I can't take a picture right now, but I'll send a photo as soon as I get home! I will say, that the T5 models were nowhere to be found in the three pet stores I went to, but I did put an order in online. For the time being, I purchased a T8 ReptiSun® 5.0 UVB Fluorescent Bulb, I hope that's a good substitute for now, I was scrolling through the forms and from what I can understand, it just doesn't penetrate a cage all the way, but I know my current cage for her is kinda small (will replace that soon!) so I was hoping it would be ok for now?

That will work for now. But you want to bend that vine so that it is roughly 5 inches below the screen with the T8 sitting right on the screen.

Good luck on your exams.

 

[Lindasjackson]

Hi and welcome! You have a beautiful chameleon there! Beman is so knowledgeable about these chameleons and their needs. You’re in good hands!

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

That will work for now. But you want to bend that vine so that it is roughly 5 inches below the screen with the T8 sitting right on the screen.

Good luck on your exams.

Ok i just got home. Shes moving around a bit but her eyes are mostly closed or squinted. Also heres the light setup i purchased

 

[PascalTheVeiledCham]

Also I’m so sorry, I know im nagging but I’m honestly super stressed out right now and I was wondering if yall think this is MBD? And also do you think she’ll survive this?

Again, I’m sorry for nagging but a sick Cham in the middle of midterms is making me so anxious I feel sick.