Sudden deaths

[Charlottethechameleon]

Hi fellow members,

This will be a heavy thread and some pictures will be shocking, however I thinks it´s essential for our community to increase the learning curve for every chameleon keeper and to try filtering out unknown trial and errors to prevent it from happening again.
Why this thread? I´ve read lately, including my own, stories about ´healthy´ chameleons from beginners to intermediate to experience keepers die without any obvious indicators within 12 till 36 hours.
That ´without any obvious signs´ I would love to crystallize till maybe obvious signs. Because, with bad husbandry declining chameleons are mostly pretty obvious for us with the well known health signs. However, I would like the hear the stories from our fellow members, of chameleon that suddenly declined and died before we could bring them to a vet. Because, what are for us obvious indicators that gives us red flags:

- Sunken eyes
- No eating
- No drinking
- No stool for days
- Sudden swollen eyes
- Blood in the poop
- Mouth open and nose the air
- Mucous mouth

But what if your chameleon didn´t show any of these indications 12 hours prior to death, this is exactly what happened to my chameleon and what keeps bothering me!

What I would wish and hopefully I find followers, is to share our stories about our precious ones passing away from us and especially in what chronological order of signs. If possible and others agree with this thread, then maybe @Brad could be pin it to the health clinic topic, to keep it under the attention for everyone.


I wi´ll start with my terrible experience of my beautiful purple dinosaur Cher.

A brief history about Cher´s last weeks. Cher started to show receptive colors around the first week of March and this went on with restless behavior and everything what comes to it. This was her first clutch and as I witnessed this with Bella, this can be hard for them the first time. By the beginning of May, she still didn´t show any digging behavior and that was when I started to get restless. She never went to the bottom of her bioactive enclosure. By the time she started hiding and not basking I knew she was getting close, same as Bella´s first time. When she started to loosing interest in eating two weeks ago, I knew it was becoming critical and I made a rigorous decision, I swapped Neo and Cher from enclosure, because Neo´s enclosure has more foliage and hide outs at the bottom (and this was pure intuition). The next morning Cher went directly down to the bottom and we hadn´t seen her all day, that´s when we started to get a good feeling. In the evening just after lights went out, she sat all covered in dirt back up on the branch. And in the morning she was basking all wrinkled, skinny and covered in dirt. So later that day I swapped her back gave her a good long drink and lots of yummy, which she ate and drank, this was the 20th of May. I could see she was a bit dehydrated, and therefore I added the dripper for her, which she also used several days.

View attachment 327595

As the days past she ate and drank normal, only her `gravid colors´ stayed (the black and pink). She did her normal routine and I even had put her in the olive tree outside for some fresh sun, which she enjoyed for hours. Then something happened which I noticed, after her last time outside, she didn´t bask anymore under the heat and UVB light and stayed underneath the led plant light. Therefore, she stayed dulled in color. I imaged that maybe because of the bright sunlight outside, she now was confused and choice the brightest light in her enclosure. This went on for the last week, but she was still eating and drinking and active. Then the last 2 days I noticed she was regularly closing her left eye, that´s what made thinking about a vit A deficiency or multivit overdosing. Have seen this with my Veiled and Jackson sometime, after giving them Respashy Calcium Plus (which I stopped using). And normally this goes away within 1 á 2 days. Monday she didn´t show interest in food, which made worried a bit and knew that maybe a vet appointment was needed within the following days. Then when I came home yesterday from work, I found her high in the enclosure not basking and with her eyes shut. When I took her out of the enclosure to check her, she had full grip and power, however she all the sudden grabbed her back leg with her tail and she laid down on a side on my hand, her colors where normal and no sunken eyes. Then I put her under the UVB and heat light and that´s when she suddenly rapidly declined. Retracted her eyes and saw her heavily breathing, colors stayed normal and 2 hours later she hang on her tail from the branch. This is when I tried to take her off, but she still had a firm tail grip. Eventually, I managed to get her of and laid her on a towel, to slowly slip away comfortly. She passed away in the morning, but still had the most beautiful colors…….

After almost 2 hours when I took her of the branch

View attachment 327596

During the morning before she passed away

View attachment 327597

What a heart breaking story I'm so very sorry for your loss Its just like my Charlotte All that I did to try and save her all the intervention vet visits antibiotics perfect husbandry supplements and uvb its like you can do it all perfectly. Yet things somehow can still go wrong ..im so sorry for your loss I too remebered Charlotte hanging by her tail it was that moment I knew it was the end...Then the pain sets in...I still miss her I'm sure you miss your baby too....

 

[Beppo]

Thank you for sharing your story.

This is one of those things that just sucks... We had another member that sent me a pic. I did not put two and two together because they said he was shedding and his eyes were sunk in. I did not realize that more was going on. I just thought the lil guy was pissed about shedding and sucking in his eyes. Beman does this when he is really angry about something. I should have asked more questions about it and felt awful that I didn't after I got the news that the cham passed away. But I did not realize they were asking a question, I thought they were just sharing a pic with me. I normally speak up and perhaps ask too many questions especially with pics. I did not do that this time and the keeper lost his cham. For sure a huge regret on my part as I hate to see things like this happen and I know how painful it is to lose a cham.

The sudden decline is what is nuts to me. They can appear totally ok then take a rapid nose dive showing outward signs of issues. I think this is the hardest thing about keeping chams. They hide stuff so well. By the time you realize something is wrong it is often too late. Even with the best husbandry something internal can be happening and we can not see it to spot an issue. Perhaps my greatest fear with Beman. And I feel like a crazy person making mental notes every day of every detail about him. So that I hopefully will notice something that is not normal. But this is not always possible.

I know I'm brand new , but you help so many people on here and you are doing your best I hope you don't co

Thank you for sharing your story.

This is one of those things that just sucks... We had another member that sent me a pic. I did not put two and two together because they said he was shedding and his eyes were sunk in. I did not realize that more was going on. I just thought the lil guy was pissed about shedding and sucking in his eyes. Beman does this when he is really angry about something. I should have asked more questions about it and felt awful that I didn't after I got the news that the cham passed away. But I did not realize they were asking a question, I thought they were just sharing a pic with me. I normally speak up and perhaps ask too many questions especially with pics. I did not do that this time and the keeper lost his cham. For sure a huge regret on my part as I hate to see things like this happen and I know how painful it is to lose a cham.

The sudden decline is what is nuts to me. They can appear totally ok then take a rapid nose dive showing outward signs of issues. I think this is the hardest thing about keeping chams. They hide stuff so well. By the time you realize something is wrong it is often too late. Even with the best husbandry something internal can be happening and we can not see it to spot an issue. Perhaps my greatest fear with Beman. And I feel like a crazy person making mental notes every day of every detail about him. So that I hopefully will notice something that is not normal. But this is not always possible.

I know it won't mean much, cuz I'm brand new here but you do so much for so many I hope you won't blame your

Hi fellow members,

This will be a heavy thread and some pictures will be shocking, however I thinks it´s essential for our community to increase the learning curve for every chameleon keeper and to try filtering out unknown trial and errors to prevent it from happening again.
Why this thread? I´ve read lately, including my own, stories about ´healthy´ chameleons from beginners to intermediate to experience keepers die without any obvious indicators within 12 till 36 hours.
That ´without any obvious signs´ I would love to crystallize till maybe obvious signs. Because, with bad husbandry declining chameleons are mostly pretty obvious for us with the well known health signs. However, I would like the hear the stories from our fellow members, of chameleon that suddenly declined and died before we could bring them to a vet. Because, what are for us obvious indicators that gives us red flags:

- Sunken eyes
- No eating
- No drinking
- No stool for days
- Sudden swollen eyes
- Blood in the poop
- Mouth open and nose the air
- Mucous mouth

But what if your chameleon didn´t show any of these indications 12 hours prior to death, this is exactly what happened to my chameleon and what keeps bothering me!

What I would wish and hopefully I find followers, is to share our stories about our precious ones passing away from us and especially in what chronological order of signs. If possible and others agree with this thread, then maybe @Brad could be pin it to the health clinic topic, to keep it under the attention for everyone.


I wi´ll start with my terrible experience of my beautiful purple dinosaur Cher.

A brief history about Cher´s last weeks. Cher started to show receptive colors around the first week of March and this went on with restless behavior and everything what comes to it. This was her first clutch and as I witnessed this with Bella, this can be hard for them the first time. By the beginning of May, she still didn´t show any digging behavior and that was when I started to get restless. She never went to the bottom of her bioactive enclosure. By the time she started hiding and not basking I knew she was getting close, same as Bella´s first time. When she started to loosing interest in eating two weeks ago, I knew it was becoming critical and I made a rigorous decision, I swapped Neo and Cher from enclosure, because Neo´s enclosure has more foliage and hide outs at the bottom (and this was pure intuition). The next morning Cher went directly down to the bottom and we hadn´t seen her all day, that´s when we started to get a good feeling. In the evening just after lights went out, she sat all covered in dirt back up on the branch. And in the morning she was basking all wrinkled, skinny and covered in dirt. So later that day I swapped her back gave her a good long drink and lots of yummy, which she ate and drank, this was the 20th of May. I could see she was a bit dehydrated, and therefore I added the dripper for her, which she also used several days.

View attachment 327595

As the days past she ate and drank normal, only her `gravid colors´ stayed (the black and pink). She did her normal routine and I even had put her in the olive tree outside for some fresh sun, which she enjoyed for hours. Then something happened which I noticed, after her last time outside, she didn´t bask anymore under the heat and UVB light and stayed underneath the led plant light. Therefore, she stayed dulled in color. I imaged that maybe because of the bright sunlight outside, she now was confused and choice the brightest light in her enclosure. This went on for the last week, but she was still eating and drinking and active. Then the last 2 days I noticed she was regularly closing her left eye, that´s what made thinking about a vit A deficiency or multivit overdosing. Have seen this with my Veiled and Jackson sometime, after giving them Respashy Calcium Plus (which I stopped using). And normally this goes away within 1 á 2 days. Monday she didn´t show interest in food, which made worried a bit and knew that maybe a vet appointment was needed within the following days. Then when I came home yesterday from work, I found her high in the enclosure not basking and with her eyes shut. When I took her out of the enclosure to check her, she had full grip and power, however she all the sudden grabbed her back leg with her tail and she laid down on a side on my hand, her colors where normal and no sunken eyes. Then I put her under the UVB and heat light and that´s when she suddenly rapidly declined. Retracted her eyes and saw her heavily breathing, colors stayed normal and 2 hours later she hang on her tail from the branch. This is when I tried to take her off, but she still had a firm tail grip. Eventually, I managed to get her of and laid her on a towel, to slowly slip away comfortly. She passed away in the morning, but still had the most beautiful colors…….

After almost 2 hours when I took her of the branch

View attachment 327596

During the morning before she passed away

View attachment 327597

I'm so sorry

 

[Sonny13]

What a heart breaking story I'm so very sorry for your loss Its just like my Charlotte All that I did to try and save her all the intervention vet visits antibiotics perfect husbandry supplements and uvb its like you can do it all perfectly. Yet things somehow can still go wrong ..im so sorry for your loss I too remebered Charlotte hanging by her tail it was that moment I knew it was the end...Then the pain sets in...I still miss her I'm sure you miss your baby too....

I’m also sorry for your lost of Charlotte Know the story all to well
Luckily we both got other chams that need our love, but they’ll never be forgotten.

 

[Ruethechameleon]

This is something that happens way too fast and chameleons will hide their illness from us until it’s too late. 2 days before Rue passed he ate and drank normally except he was a bit restless and was trying to climb on the top of his enclosure. I was a bit concerned but I thought he was cranky I was in the same room as him since his cage is in my bedroom. He also did not curl up into a little ball that night or the next night either. Which I found weird, but I haven’t heard that not curling up for bed is a sign of illness. Looking back I wish I realized the odd behavior and got him to a vet asap. I will regret that for forever.

I was unable to be home during his last day due to my schedule. But when I woke up to check on him that morning his misting system went off and about 20 minutes after I found him laying on his side in his plant. He usually gets uncomfortable with his misting system blasting water on him but this was nothing I’ve seen him do before. His eyes were a bit sunken but that’s typical of him to do when he gets sprayed with water. I did know something was up I didn’t know what nor did I think that this was going to be his last day either. I planed on taking him to the vet as soon as the weekend was over since there’s not many around me open over the weekend.

I was scared he was cold or something and moved him under his basking light and he didn’t have his usual bright colors and his eyes weren’t focusing on much. He wasn’t alert like how we usually was. He had no interest in food either.

I did end up having to leave and am unsure of what other symptoms he experienced while I was gone but I had my pet sitter send me a picture of him when she came to walk the dogs. And he was in the middle of making his way down to the bottom of his cage.

This was what he looked like when she checked on him. I made sure to get home as soon as I could after she sent that picture, but by the time I made it home he was already on the bottom of his cage, mouth open, pale and weak.

I was hoping he would’ve been able to hold on until I made it to the emergency vet but the closest one with an exotic animal dr on a Saturday night was 1 hour and 48 minutes away. I still drove over there however he sadly passed away about 30 minutes from the vet. I knew the chances of him surviving at that point was basically 0 but I still wanted to try to do what I could. Looking back, based off of what he was looking like the day he passed, I don’t think he would’ve been able to make it regardless of if I got him to a vet earlier that day or not since he declined within hours. I will forever miss my sweet baby, he was a beautiful boy with such a cute personality.

If you notice weird changes in your chams behavior like restlessness, not curling up for bed like normal, or abnormal paleness in color. Please please get them to a vet as soon as you see any signs of abnormal behavior.

 

[GrannyK]

This is something that happens way too fast and chameleons will hide their illness from us until it’s too late. 2 days before Rue passed he ate and drank normally except he was a bit restless and was trying to climb on the top of his enclosure. I was a bit concerned but I thought he was cranky I was in the same room as him since his cage is in my bedroom. He also did not curl up into a little ball that night or the next night either. Which I found weird, but I haven’t heard that not curling up for bed is a sign of illness. Looking back I wish I realized the odd behavior and got him to a vet asap. I will regret that for forever.

I was unable to be home during his last day due to my schedule. But when I woke up to check on him that morning his misting system went off and about 20 minutes after I found him laying on his side in his plant. He usually gets uncomfortable with his misting system blasting water on him but this was nothing I’ve seen him do before. His eyes were a bit sunken but that’s typical of him to do when he gets sprayed with water. I did know something was up I didn’t know what nor did I think that this was going to be his last day either. I planed on taking him to the vet as soon as the weekend was over since there’s not many around me open over the weekend.
View attachment 346207
I was scared he was cold or something and moved him under his basking light and he didn’t have his usual bright colors and his eyes weren’t focusing on much. He wasn’t alert like how we usually was. He had no interest in food either.
View attachment 346208
I did end up having to leave and am unsure of what other symptoms he experienced while I was gone but I had my pet sitter send me a picture of him when she came to walk the dogs. And he was in the middle of making his way down to the bottom of his cage.
View attachment 346220
This was what he looked like when she checked on him. I made sure to get home as soon as I could after she sent that picture, but by the time I made it home he was already on the bottom of his cage, mouth open, pale and weak.

I was hoping he would’ve been able to hold on until I made it to the emergency vet but the closest one with an exotic animal dr on a Saturday night was 1 hour and 48 minutes away. I still drove over there however he sadly passed away about 30 minutes from the vet. I knew the chances of him surviving at that point was basically 0 but I still wanted to try to do what I could. Looking back, based off of what he was looking like the day he passed, I don’t think he would’ve been able to make it regardless of if I got him to a vet earlier that day or not since he declined within hours. I will forever miss my sweet baby, he was a beautiful boy with such a cute personality.
View attachment 346222
If you notice weird changes in your chams behavior like restlessness, not curling up for bed like normal, or abnormal paleness in color. Please please get them to a vet as soon as you see any signs of abnormal behavior.

I’m so sorry! it’s so hard when they decline so quickly. he was a beautiful boy.

 

[Beman]

This is something that happens way too fast and chameleons will hide their illness from us until it’s too late. 2 days before Rue passed he ate and drank normally except he was a bit restless and was trying to climb on the top of his enclosure. I was a bit concerned but I thought he was cranky I was in the same room as him since his cage is in my bedroom. He also did not curl up into a little ball that night or the next night either. Which I found weird, but I haven’t heard that not curling up for bed is a sign of illness. Looking back I wish I realized the odd behavior and got him to a vet asap. I will regret that for forever.

I was unable to be home during his last day due to my schedule. But when I woke up to check on him that morning his misting system went off and about 20 minutes after I found him laying on his side in his plant. He usually gets uncomfortable with his misting system blasting water on him but this was nothing I’ve seen him do before. His eyes were a bit sunken but that’s typical of him to do when he gets sprayed with water. I did know something was up I didn’t know what nor did I think that this was going to be his last day either. I planed on taking him to the vet as soon as the weekend was over since there’s not many around me open over the weekend.
View attachment 346207
I was scared he was cold or something and moved him under his basking light and he didn’t have his usual bright colors and his eyes weren’t focusing on much. He wasn’t alert like how we usually was. He had no interest in food either.
View attachment 346208
I did end up having to leave and am unsure of what other symptoms he experienced while I was gone but I had my pet sitter send me a picture of him when she came to walk the dogs. And he was in the middle of making his way down to the bottom of his cage.
View attachment 346224
This was what he looked like when she checked on him. I made sure to get home as soon as I could after she sent that picture, but by the time I made it home he was already on the bottom of his cage, mouth open, pale and weak.

I was hoping he would’ve been able to hold on until I made it to the emergency vet but the closest one with an exotic animal dr on a Saturday night was 1 hour and 48 minutes away. I still drove over there however he sadly passed away about 30 minutes from the vet. I knew the chances of him surviving at that point was basically 0 but I still wanted to try to do what I could. Looking back, based off of what he was looking like the day he passed, I don’t think he would’ve been able to make it regardless of if I got him to a vet earlier that day or not since he declined within hours. I will forever miss my sweet baby, he was a beautiful boy with such a cute personality.
View attachment 346223
If you notice weird changes in your chams behavior like restlessness, not curling up for bed like normal, or abnormal paleness in color. Please please get them to a vet as soon as you see any signs of abnormal behavior.

Thank you for sharing for others to learn. So sorry again for your loss.

 

[Ruethechameleon]

Thank you for sharing for others to learn. So sorry again for your loss.

No problem, hopefully it can help someone

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m so very sorry. How heartbreaking. I hope you find peace and healing. ((()))

 

[Sonny13]

This is something that happens way too fast and chameleons will hide their illness from us until it’s too late. 2 days before Rue passed he ate and drank normally except he was a bit restless and was trying to climb on the top of his enclosure. I was a bit concerned but I thought he was cranky I was in the same room as him since his cage is in my bedroom. He also did not curl up into a little ball that night or the next night either. Which I found weird, but I haven’t heard that not curling up for bed is a sign of illness. Looking back I wish I realized the odd behavior and got him to a vet asap. I will regret that for forever.

I was unable to be home during his last day due to my schedule. But when I woke up to check on him that morning his misting system went off and about 20 minutes after I found him laying on his side in his plant. He usually gets uncomfortable with his misting system blasting water on him but this was nothing I’ve seen him do before. His eyes were a bit sunken but that’s typical of him to do when he gets sprayed with water. I did know something was up I didn’t know what nor did I think that this was going to be his last day either. I planed on taking him to the vet as soon as the weekend was over since there’s not many around me open over the weekend.
View attachment 346207
I was scared he was cold or something and moved him under his basking light and he didn’t have his usual bright colors and his eyes weren’t focusing on much. He wasn’t alert like how we usually was. He had no interest in food either.
View attachment 346208
I did end up having to leave and am unsure of what other symptoms he experienced while I was gone but I had my pet sitter send me a picture of him when she came to walk the dogs. And he was in the middle of making his way down to the bottom of his cage.
View attachment 346224
This was what he looked like when she checked on him. I made sure to get home as soon as I could after she sent that picture, but by the time I made it home he was already on the bottom of his cage, mouth open, pale and weak.

I was hoping he would’ve been able to hold on until I made it to the emergency vet but the closest one with an exotic animal dr on a Saturday night was 1 hour and 48 minutes away. I still drove over there however he sadly passed away about 30 minutes from the vet. I knew the chances of him surviving at that point was basically 0 but I still wanted to try to do what I could. Looking back, based off of what he was looking like the day he passed, I don’t think he would’ve been able to make it regardless of if I got him to a vet earlier that day or not since he declined within hours. I will forever miss my sweet baby, he was a beautiful boy with such a cute personality.
View attachment 346223
If you notice weird changes in your chams behavior like restlessness, not curling up for bed like normal, or abnormal paleness in color. Please please get them to a vet as soon as you see any signs of abnormal behavior.

Again and I'm really sorry for your lost and keep him close in your heart, while he keeps an eye on you from his cloud tree. Don't blame yourself too much, these are circumstances that happen and we can't control. You gave him a good life with all your love. I'm therefore happy you shared your story and others can learn from it and notice early symptoms.

I still would suggest pinning this thread to stay visible and readable for others @Beman @Brad @JacksJill

 

[dinomom]

This is something that happens way too fast and chameleons will hide their illness from us until it’s too late. 2 days before Rue passed he ate and drank normally except he was a bit restless and was trying to climb on the top of his enclosure. I was a bit concerned but I thought he was cranky I was in the same room as him since his cage is in my bedroom. He also did not curl up into a little ball that night or the next night either. Which I found weird, but I haven’t heard that not curling up for bed is a sign of illness. Looking back I wish I realized the odd behavior and got him to a vet asap. I will regret that for forever.

I was unable to be home during his last day due to my schedule. But when I woke up to check on him that morning his misting system went off and about 20 minutes after I found him laying on his side in his plant. He usually gets uncomfortable with his misting system blasting water on him but this was nothing I’ve seen him do before. His eyes were a bit sunken but that’s typical of him to do when he gets sprayed with water. I did know something was up I didn’t know what nor did I think that this was going to be his last day either. I planed on taking him to the vet as soon as the weekend was over since there’s not many around me open over the weekend.
View attachment 346207
I was scared he was cold or something and moved him under his basking light and he didn’t have his usual bright colors and his eyes weren’t focusing on much. He wasn’t alert like how we usually was. He had no interest in food either.
View attachment 346208
I did end up having to leave and am unsure of what other symptoms he experienced while I was gone but I had my pet sitter send me a picture of him when she came to walk the dogs. And he was in the middle of making his way down to the bottom of his cage.
View attachment 346224
This was what he looked like when she checked on him. I made sure to get home as soon as I could after she sent that picture, but by the time I made it home he was already on the bottom of his cage, mouth open, pale and weak.

I was hoping he would’ve been able to hold on until I made it to the emergency vet but the closest one with an exotic animal dr on a Saturday night was 1 hour and 48 minutes away. I still drove over there however he sadly passed away about 30 minutes from the vet. I knew the chances of him surviving at that point was basically 0 but I still wanted to try to do what I could. Looking back, based off of what he was looking like the day he passed, I don’t think he would’ve been able to make it regardless of if I got him to a vet earlier that day or not since he declined within hours. I will forever miss my sweet baby, he was a beautiful boy with such a cute personality.
View attachment 346223
If you notice weird changes in your chams behavior like restlessness, not curling up for bed like normal, or abnormal paleness in color. Please please get them to a vet as soon as you see any signs of abnormal behavior.

So sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing through your pain.

 

[Sonny13]

I’m sorry I need to actualize this thread again and I needed time to recover from the shock and I’m still full in grief. We lost our beautiful Archi boy out of nothing !!Still can’t believe it!! Nothing was wrong with him and he was on the edge of shedding. Saturday we finally had some warm and sunny weather, perfect weather for the crew to go outside. Therefore, it was Archi’s and Neo’s turn to get their olive tree sunshine. After 1 hour I went inside (got full view on them from the 1st floor) to warm up dinner and I had constant observation on them and they stayed at place basking. Before I went inside, I checked on them and Archi was fully active constantly scanning, normal colors and nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand because he needed to start with his shed, every few minutes he would bloat his gular and open his mouth for a few seconds (typical yawning). This last time, because the light breeze, a leaf was blown in his mouth while yawning and got stock on his tongue, which I removed (maybe he did shoot for a bug). After 10 maybe 15 minutes inside, I came back checking on them (still basking at the same spot) but now I noticed Archi’s eye was closed and when I checked closer I saw a small twig of the olive tree, square, in his mouth, it was probably blown in his mouth again while yawning or he did shoot for a bug again. But saw also lots of saliva around his mouth, I removed the twig which was also stuck to his tongue and this is when he started making strange movements with tongue (pushing upwards) and started biting his own tongue. This was when realized something bad is going on, so I took him out of the tree and he already was a bit lethargic but still biting his tongue, tried several times to open his mouth, where he bit me with full force (missing skin on my fingertips). And kept pushing his tongue against his palate, during this his colors weren’t distressed nor were his eyes detracted (at some point they did, but returned). After some time moving around with his tongue, I even watered tongue and tried to push his tongue completely in his mouth so he couldn’t bite it. Somewhere in between his tongue fell out completely (like paralyzed) and I carefully move it back inside folding it back over his hyoid bone, but his hyoid horn kept pointing upwards. During this still no eyes pulled in, therefore giving me hope. Even tried mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, in the thought he maybe had struggling with breathing. He only opened once his eyes, had completely weak grip but could bite me with full force. I think after 40 minutes his eyes went to death mode and I couldn't get any reaction anymore, then he overstretched himself twice, arching his back and that was it, I lost him . During the hours later he got black spots on his head and his colors changed to his pj colors. And the worst thing is, during these 45 minutes he also started to shed (see picture, sorry for picture).

So what the hell happened??!! I just don’t know!! From alive and well till death within 45 minutes. I’m thinking of 3 options:
1) Somehow the twigs of olive trees are poisonous
2) Some kind insect bit him on his tongue, ants are always present in tree and also bees where flying around and he had an anaphylactic shock
3) Or.........it had to do with his first time real UVB

I’m such a mess right now, Archi was the last one I expected to leave us, he was just year and the youngster of the crew.
It took me hours to finally burry him next to Cher.

Poor boy I failed you, R.I.P. Archibald

My boy’s last picture being alive

After he passed away (so unreal and still as handsome)

 

[yungzerk]

I’m sorry I need to actualize this thread again and I needed time to recover from the shock and I’m still full in grief. We lost our beautiful Archi boy out of nothing !!Still can’t believe it!! Nothing was wrong with him and he was on the edge of shedding. Saturday we finally had some warm and sunny weather, perfect weather for the crew to go outside. Therefore, it was Archi’s and Neo’s turn to get their olive tree sunshine. After 1 hour I went inside (got full view on them from the 1st floor) to warm up dinner and I had constant observation on them and they stayed at place basking. Before I went inside, I checked on them and Archi was fully active constantly scanning, normal colors and nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand because he needed to start with his shed, every few minutes he would bloat his gular and open his mouth for a few seconds (typical yawning). This last time, because the light breeze, a leaf was blown in his mouth while yawning and got stock on his tongue, which I removed (maybe he did shoot for a bug). After 10 maybe 15 minutes inside, I came back checking on them (still basking at the same spot) but now I noticed Archi’s eye was closed and when I checked closer I saw a small twig of the olive tree, square, in his mouth, it was probably blown in his mouth again while yawning or he did shoot for a bug again. But saw also lots of saliva around his mouth, I removed the twig which was also stuck to his tongue and this is when he started making strange movements with tongue (pushing upwards) and started biting his own tongue. This was when realized something bad is going on, so I took him out of the tree and he already was a bit lethargic but still biting his tongue, tried several times to open his mouth, where he bit me with full force (missing skin on my fingertips). And kept pushing his tongue against his palate, during this his colors weren’t distressed nor were his eyes detracted (at some point they did, but returned). After some time moving around with his tongue, I even watered tongue and tried to push his tongue completely in his mouth so he couldn’t bite it. Somewhere in between his tongue fell out completely (like paralyzed) and I carefully move it back inside folding it back over his hyoid bone, but his hyoid horn kept pointing upwards. During this still no eyes pulled in, therefore giving me hope. Even tried mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, in the thought he maybe had struggling with breathing. He only opened once his eyes, had completely weak grip but could bite me with full force. I think after 40 minutes his eyes went to death mode and I couldn't get any reaction anymore, then he overstretched himself twice, arching his back and that was it, I lost him . During the hours later he got black spots on his head and his colors changed to his pj colors. And the worst thing is, during these 45 minutes he also started to shed (see picture, sorry for picture).

So what the hell happened??!! I just don’t know!! From alive and well till death within 45 minutes. I’m thinking of 3 options:
1) Somehow the twigs of olive trees are poisonous
2) Some kind insect bit him on his tongue, ants are always present in tree and also bees where flying around and he had an anaphylactic shock
3) Or.........it had to do with his first time real UVB

I’m such a mess right now, Archi was the last one I expected to leave us, he was just year and the youngster of the crew.
It took me hours to finally burry him next to Cher.

Poor boy I failed you, R.I.P. Archibald

My boy’s last picture being alive

View attachment 354386

After he passed away (so unreal and still as handsome)

View attachment 354387

i am so so sorry to hear this. You didn’t fail him and i know ittl be hard but you can’t blame yourself for this, you simply didn’t know and such an out of the blue way to pass. My condolences and hope you’re doing okay he was such a handsome boy

 

[dinomom]

I’m sorry I need to actualize this thread again and I needed time to recover from the shock and I’m still full in grief. We lost our beautiful Archi boy out of nothing !!Still can’t believe it!! Nothing was wrong with him and he was on the edge of shedding. Saturday we finally had some warm and sunny weather, perfect weather for the crew to go outside. Therefore, it was Archi’s and Neo’s turn to get their olive tree sunshine. After 1 hour I went inside (got full view on them from the 1st floor) to warm up dinner and I had constant observation on them and they stayed at place basking. Before I went inside, I checked on them and Archi was fully active constantly scanning, normal colors and nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand because he needed to start with his shed, every few minutes he would bloat his gular and open his mouth for a few seconds (typical yawning). This last time, because the light breeze, a leaf was blown in his mouth while yawning and got stock on his tongue, which I removed (maybe he did shoot for a bug). After 10 maybe 15 minutes inside, I came back checking on them (still basking at the same spot) but now I noticed Archi’s eye was closed and when I checked closer I saw a small twig of the olive tree, square, in his mouth, it was probably blown in his mouth again while yawning or he did shoot for a bug again. But saw also lots of saliva around his mouth, I removed the twig which was also stuck to his tongue and this is when he started making strange movements with tongue (pushing upwards) and started biting his own tongue. This was when realized something bad is going on, so I took him out of the tree and he already was a bit lethargic but still biting his tongue, tried several times to open his mouth, where he bit me with full force (missing skin on my fingertips). And kept pushing his tongue against his palate, during this his colors weren’t distressed nor were his eyes detracted (at some point they did, but returned). After some time moving around with his tongue, I even watered tongue and tried to push his tongue completely in his mouth so he couldn’t bite it. Somewhere in between his tongue fell out completely (like paralyzed) and I carefully move it back inside folding it back over his hyoid bone, but his hyoid horn kept pointing upwards. During this still no eyes pulled in, therefore giving me hope. Even tried mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, in the thought he maybe had struggling with breathing. He only opened once his eyes, had completely weak grip but could bite me with full force. I think after 40 minutes his eyes went to death mode and I couldn't get any reaction anymore, then he overstretched himself twice, arching his back and that was it, I lost him . During the hours later he got black spots on his head and his colors changed to his pj colors. And the worst thing is, during these 45 minutes he also started to shed (see picture, sorry for picture).

So what the hell happened??!! I just don’t know!! From alive and well till death within 45 minutes. I’m thinking of 3 options:
1) Somehow the twigs of olive trees are poisonous
2) Some kind insect bit him on his tongue, ants are always present in tree and also bees where flying around and he had an anaphylactic shock
3) Or.........it had to do with his first time real UVB

I’m such a mess right now, Archi was the last one I expected to leave us, he was just year and the youngster of the crew.
It took me hours to finally burry him next to Cher.

Poor boy I failed you, R.I.P. Archibald

My boy’s last picture being alive

View attachment 354386

After he passed away (so unreal and still as handsome)

View attachment 354387

I was devastated to read this first thing this morning. A tragic loss of a young, healthy chameleon. What you are describing sounds like there is no doubt that he tried to eat a bee or spider and encountered toxins. The biting the tongue would be from pain or numbness.

We always want to analyze what we could have done differently and in this case the answer is..nothing. Just a freak accident.

Do not regret that you put him out for sun, we know the benefits far outweigh the risks and we cannot control every single variable.

He was a beautiful boy and I know you have many wonderful memories of him and you will be in everyone's thoughts today.

 

[JacksJill]

I’m so sorry this happened. I would suspect it was something he ate. Probably an insect. I don’t know anything about olive trees being toxic but I haven’t looked it up.

 

[Beppo]

I am so sorry you lost your boy Archie…. Please don’t say you failed him though, everyone here knows how much you love all your babies…. This sounds like a freak accident. Again I’m so sorry, and hoping you can heal and hold close all the memories you had with him. rest in peace Archie

 

[Ghostbirb]

I’m sorry I need to actualize this thread again and I needed time to recover from the shock and I’m still full in grief. We lost our beautiful Archi boy out of nothing !!Still can’t believe it!! Nothing was wrong with him and he was on the edge of shedding. Saturday we finally had some warm and sunny weather, perfect weather for the crew to go outside. Therefore, it was Archi’s and Neo’s turn to get their olive tree sunshine. After 1 hour I went inside (got full view on them from the 1st floor) to warm up dinner and I had constant observation on them and they stayed at place basking. Before I went inside, I checked on them and Archi was fully active constantly scanning, normal colors and nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand because he needed to start with his shed, every few minutes he would bloat his gular and open his mouth for a few seconds (typical yawning). This last time, because the light breeze, a leaf was blown in his mouth while yawning and got stock on his tongue, which I removed (maybe he did shoot for a bug). After 10 maybe 15 minutes inside, I came back checking on them (still basking at the same spot) but now I noticed Archi’s eye was closed and when I checked closer I saw a small twig of the olive tree, square, in his mouth, it was probably blown in his mouth again while yawning or he did shoot for a bug again. But saw also lots of saliva around his mouth, I removed the twig which was also stuck to his tongue and this is when he started making strange movements with tongue (pushing upwards) and started biting his own tongue. This was when realized something bad is going on, so I took him out of the tree and he already was a bit lethargic but still biting his tongue, tried several times to open his mouth, where he bit me with full force (missing skin on my fingertips). And kept pushing his tongue against his palate, during this his colors weren’t distressed nor were his eyes detracted (at some point they did, but returned). After some time moving around with his tongue, I even watered tongue and tried to push his tongue completely in his mouth so he couldn’t bite it. Somewhere in between his tongue fell out completely (like paralyzed) and I carefully move it back inside folding it back over his hyoid bone, but his hyoid horn kept pointing upwards. During this still no eyes pulled in, therefore giving me hope. Even tried mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, in the thought he maybe had struggling with breathing. He only opened once his eyes, had completely weak grip but could bite me with full force. I think after 40 minutes his eyes went to death mode and I couldn't get any reaction anymore, then he overstretched himself twice, arching his back and that was it, I lost him . During the hours later he got black spots on his head and his colors changed to his pj colors. And the worst thing is, during these 45 minutes he also started to shed (see picture, sorry for picture).

So what the hell happened??!! I just don’t know!! From alive and well till death within 45 minutes. I’m thinking of 3 options:
1) Somehow the twigs of olive trees are poisonous
2) Some kind insect bit him on his tongue, ants are always present in tree and also bees where flying around and he had an anaphylactic shock
3) Or.........it had to do with his first time real UVB

I’m such a mess right now, Archi was the last one I expected to leave us, he was just year and the youngster of the crew.
It took me hours to finally burry him next to Cher.

Poor boy I failed you, R.I.P. Archibald

My boy’s last picture being alive

View attachment 354386

After he passed away (so unreal and still as handsome)

View attachment 354387

Oh no I’m so so so sorry! Poor baby! Sending you hugs! He had such an amazing time with you and it’s so unfortunate that things can just happen like this. May the sweet boy rest in peace

 

[MissSkittles]

I again offer my condolences to you and your family. It’s just tragic that this has happened to your beautiful Archi. I can only think that it was an insect…maybe a bee. I hate that this has happened to you. You put so much care and love into your chameleons and ensuring that they have a more natural and fulfilling life. You most definitely did not fail him! Sending you hugs and prayers & vibes to help heal your heart. ((( )))

 

[Sonny13]

i am so so sorry to hear this. You didn’t fail him and i know ittl be hard but you can’t blame yourself for this, you simply didn’t know and such an out of the blue way to pass. My condolences and hope you’re doing okay he was such a handsome boy

I was devastated to read this first thing this morning. A tragic loss of a young, healthy chameleon. What you are describing sounds like there is no doubt that he tried to eat a bee or spider and encountered toxins. The biting the tongue would be from pain or numbness.

We always want to analyze what we could have done differently and in this case the answer is..nothing. Just a freak accident.

Do not regret that you put him out for sun, we know the benefits far outweigh the risks and we cannot control every single variable.

He was a beautiful boy and I know you have many wonderful memories of him and you will be in everyone's thoughts today.

I’m so sorry this happened. I would suspect it was something he ate. Probably an insect. I don’t know anything about olive trees being toxic but I haven’t looked it up.

I am so sorry you lost your boy Archie…. Please don’t say you failed him though, everyone here knows how much you love all your babies…. This sounds like a freak accident. Again I’m so sorry, and hoping you can heal and hold close all the memories you had with him. rest in peace Archie

Oh no I’m so so so sorry! Poor baby! Sending you hugs! He had such an amazing time with you and it’s so unfortunate that things can just happen like this. May the sweet boy rest in peace

I again offer my condolences to you and your family. It’s just tragic that this has happened to your beautiful Archi. I can only think that it was an insect…maybe a bee. I hate that this has happened to you. You put so much care and love into your chameleons and ensuring that they have a more natural and fulfilling life. You most definitely did not fail him! Sending you hugs and prayers & vibes to help heal your heart. ((( )))

Thank you’ll, it’s always comforting being with likeminded people. I know, I can’t blame myself. Even if I checked him constantly, I would never bin in time to interfere when shooting for a bug. Failing him? it was my obligation to give him a healthy long and good life. Two out of three I did manage, however not good enough. But, I get extreme comfort getting more and more the conformation it was some kind of insect intoxicating.

Thanks again for your kind words

 

[Tkrd69]

So sorry to hear this my friend. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Sonny13]

So sorry to hear this my friend. My heart goes out to you.

Thank you my friend