Todnedo
Avid Member
I'm not the one that thinks a cites document is an individual passport for every chameleon to come into the county. It's a good start but way to flawed to ever stop the illegal trade in endangered species.
Rare Chameleons from Madagascar available in 2013
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I'm not the one that thinks a cites document is an individual passport for every chameleon to come into the county. It's a good start but way to flawed to ever stop the illegal trade in endangered species.
Todnedo
Avid Member
Oh so you don't own a cites appendix II species?
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
No I own a CITES paperwork IUCN Red List Rated Near Threatened species. Are you going to stop crying? Grow up. Isn't a good start with new CITES quotas that could last good enough for you?
Todnedo
Avid Member
New quotas are not a good thing IMO you talk about conservation and think new quotas are a good thing? I find that confusing to say the least.
DanSB
Avid Member
The quotas are a good thing if they represent an increased stability in habitat / population.
They are bad if they represent financial backing from wealthy enthusiasts, which I for one suspect.
Regardless of the reason it IS exciting. Good, bad? I'm not sure any of us, save possibly Chris, is qualified to answer that.
From my perspective Jeremy didn't say it was good, and you're kinda being a ****.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
That is your opinion. I just think if conservation happens and chameleon populations are conserved and are not threatened such as how they were in 1995 due to over collecting (much more then) and slash and burn agriculture and less preserves then than there are now. If conservation goals have been met and sustainable collecting can happen with conservative quotas then that is a privileged of accomplished conservation.
This is a privileged though if we in the next three years after these quotas have made, start to see trends that are similar to what happened during and before 1995. I think these new quotas won't last long.
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Sohumvet
Member
As do I , Todnedo and several highly regarded members of this forum.
We owe it to this genus to get along and learn from each other to insure a bright future for these animals. I know Jeremy has been very helpful to me.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
After about twenty years of no new quotas I think the opportunity for new quotas is a great thing. It is a privileged though. This situation does not happen often. Asian Arowanas have been legal to the world since 1995 and illegal to the USA and do not seem as though they are going to be legalized any time in the foreseeable future.
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Todnedo
Avid Member
Ok let's say all the cites paperwork parsons in the US are legit, why would we need to import wild caught parsons knowing how poorly they do in captivity?
There are plenty in captivity to breed and more come in with cb paperwork every year.
Taking wild animals from the wild is never good, especially threatened/endangered ones.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
You have not read a lot of my posts on the subject I have been posting for a long time now I'm not a fan at all of these quotas if they are wild caught Parsonii. I have been stating since the beginning that if new quotas happen I think they should be farm bred or ranched Parsonii not wild caught Parsonii. As for the captive bred I always look to buy captive bred over wild caught and I think most people on this forums are doing the same now days anyways.
As far as the whole ordeal we just went through about question of clarity of legality of the paperwork. I can explain that the new quotas makes it totally clear that there is no debate that there is any legal issues and is not unregulated trade (similar to pre 1995 trade) done under the radar such as the much of the trade your currently referring too or non CITES document trade.
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Todnedo my experiences with Parsonii and CITES documents were good. Yours experiences with Parsonii and CITES documents obviously seem to not have inspired much confidence.
Todnedo
Avid Member
What's is the country of origin of your cites?
Motherlode Chameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry Todendo your the last person I'm giving privileged information too.
I do not understand why you are still acting pissed. If you hatch out Parsonii babies there is still going to be a big market for them. Allegedly most of these Wild Caught Parsonii are going to Asia/Japan.
chameleoman
Avid Member
Lets all get along here guys! Just have a civilized normal discussion no need to get personal here 
Todnedo
Avid Member
So you really think there are farmed parsons in maddie even thou the have been ban from leaving the country since 95' Go ahead and post a link to this info. I bet it's a picture of your butt
CarlC
Established Member
I can say that in 2001 there were no farms. Holding facilities for export yes but no farms. A facility in Mandraka had some globifer in pens. They didn't look healthy enough for any breeding.
It just wouldn't be profitable to farm raise species like parsonii that have such long hatch times.
Could this have changed since I was there, yes, but I doubt it. Madagascar is still a very 3rd world country. In our lifetime we will see more disappear then be saved. Mining and timber will always pay more then conservation. In a country like Madagascar money does the talking.
Carl
It just wouldn't be profitable to farm raise species like parsonii that have such long hatch times.
Could this have changed since I was there, yes, but I doubt it. Madagascar is still a very 3rd world country. In our lifetime we will see more disappear then be saved. Mining and timber will always pay more then conservation. In a country like Madagascar money does the talking.
Carl
Let's keep it civil and attempt to be mature here people. Further quibbling will result in infractions.
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