My Chameleon's Breeder Hates Me for Having Live Plant in Enclosure- Help!?

Dynamaxion

New Member
Your Chameleon - 7 month old panther chameleon, in my care for 30 days.
Handling - Once a week to take him outside
Feeding - I feed him twice a day, a dubia or two per meal with a superworm or phoenix worms as replacement treats on occasion. Then a silk or hornworm every 4 days, he is now tired of hornworms.
Supplements - Reptical without d3 daily, with d3 every 2 weeks, multivitamin every 2 weeks.
Watering - I set the mister to 2 minutes every two hours, its max setting(Exo Terra). I run a dripper all day via Big Dripper.
Fecal Description - Urates are orange, poop itself looks normal
Gutloading: Arugula, oats, carrots, and apple for the dubia roaches.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 UVB Tropical Bulb, 35w Halogen full flood bulb (used to use 50w but its 90 degrees on average outside right now)
Temperature - Basking spot peaks out at 93-94, night time gets down to about 70.
Humidity - Humidity is 20-30% in between mistings, about 65%-75% after mistings.
Plants - Yes, one Ficus Benjamina
Placement - In my room, take care to protect it from air drafts. He is on a two foot stand, making the top of the cage 6' tall.
Location - Central California



Okay so I have been having a lot of trouble getting my chameleon to drink, his urates are orange unless I feed him a horn/silkworm. He is active and eats well and has nice coloring, but his urates are orange meaning he doesn't drink enough.

I called the breeder I bought him from to ask about watering methods so I can replicate what he was raised in. The breeder responded very angrily, saying that I didn't know what I was doing, that I was an idiot, that he knew he shouldn't have sold the chameleon to me and that even his wife knew I was a fool, all because I said I had trouble getting him to drink. I apologized for my "offenses" and said I'd send him a picture of my enclosure. After seeing the pictures he FLIPPED, saying he TOLD me to NEVER put a live plant in a chameleon enclosure, began cursing at me, saying that "it's not what I did, it's what you did!" (I never had any finger pointing, I just asked how he watered my chameleon when he was younger and said he has trouble drinking. That's it.)

He then told me that he won't help me since I didn't listen to the life plant advice. I apologized profusely, said I would take my ficus benjamina out of the cage and replace it with more fake vines/branches, and promised to do everything he recommended. He would have none of it and no longer responds to my calls, telling me I'm on my own.

The whole thing seems very strange, what is this guy's problem? Have I really done something so terrible by putting a Ficus in my chameleon's cage? The last thing he said, and I quote, "you didn't listen and now your poor chameleon is sick from the tree you put in the cage. All of this drama is caused by you and your mistakes." I apologized and asked again for misting advice, he didn't respond. Geez, all that just because I asked for misting advice.

This guy is clearly pretty mentally unstable/insane, but I want someone to tell me if I have really committed a terrible grave offense by putting a ficus in his cage. I also want someone to give me the misting advice that all this drama was aimed at.

Any advice is MUCH appreciated, seriously ANY advice, I am desperate here and am honestly very sad/upset that a professional breeder insulted me in this way.

He also said I was an idiot for using Reptical instead of Repashy, and that "you need to stop reading bull**** advice on those bull**** forums. Every time I tried to tell you not to put a live plant you said 'but I read this and that.' You don't know anything, I'm not offering any more help." Sorry Mr. Breeder, but sometimes these forums are all I have to turn to, especially when you are so unnecessarily hostile.

I wasn't expecting to get so much hate and am quite shaken up. I have NEVER heard of a chameleon disease where he would eat fine, walk around fine, look fine, do everything fine just not drink, so I don't think this drinking problem is caused by a disease transmitted by the ficus.

Can someone please try to explain all this to me?

Thanks.
 
Your watering schedule of twice a day and a full Big Dripper every day should be enough.

Keep the plant, make sure the misting and dripper hit the leaves.

Increase the length and/or number of mistings if you can.

Are the eyes rounded or sunk in.

Sorry you had a bad experience, it gets better when you visit here!

CHEERS!

Nick
 
That guy sounds like a nut. Ficus benjamina has an extraordinary amount of positive experience as a chameleon plant. Speaking to a customer that way is inexcusable.

The only issue with ficus is if you have a chameleon that likes to eat vegetation, the sap is irritating to mucus membranes. That is true for many plants.
 
Thank you for the reassurance, it really sucks to be called names especially when I sincerely care about my cham and am just trying to do my best.

I will post pictures shortly, his eyes are not sunken at all but he has been eating silkworms a few times this week. He flared up a bit from the camera but obviously he is not normally angry like that.

Mister is in upper left corner, dripper hits fake leaves on the right.

http://imgur.com/rLmRmgV,jfxtgMS,OPrEUJK,5QpJ4SG,YgiuTrP,I0qY2kA
 
As for the drinking issue, how often and how long do you mist him? Do you use a dripper? Some chameleons prefer one way over the other, and some chameleons take a very long time to start drinking.
 
Okay you use both a mister and a dripper. Have you tried long warm mistings or putting his plant in a warm shower (turn the spray towards the wall and let it bounce on him, not spray directly)? He may be a really show drinker.

On another note, to should give him several more branches for climbing.

He's quite a good looking cham!
 
Okay you use both a mister and a dripper. Have you tried long warm mistings or putting his plant in a warm shower (turn the spray towards the wall and let it bounce on him, not spray directly)? He may be a really show drinker.

On another note, to should give him several more branches for climbing.

He's quite a good looking cham!

Thank you, I do love his colors.

I will try the shower method tomorrow. One question- if chams are "closet drinkers", which mine probably is, how can I not leave him unattended in the shower yet still allow him some alone time to drink? I guess I could just crack the door open every 4-5 minutes or so.

I have tried misting him for 12 minutes straight with a hand sprayer probably about 5 times now, he just sits there staring at the stream of mist in front of him and at the dripping leaves but didn't drink. It's a little late now but tomorrow I will try leaving the auto mister on for 15 minutes straight and leave the room.

I will add a new vine with branches ASAP. I also let him outside Saturday and Sunday where he climbs a bigger ficus tree outside and seems to have a blast.

Who would have thought, I could get some help without being insulted! Thanks a lot I sincerely appreciate it.
 
Definitely keep an eye on him in the shower for safety but give him some space.

We're a nice group here, so don't be afraid to ask questions :)
 
I haven't heard of other people having this experience, but I bought my veiled a fancy mist king system and he doesn't even like it because I accidentally got him used to droplets from the roof of his cage, and I never see him drink from leaves or anything in his enclosure except for the roof.

Since your breeder didn't answer you, I wonder if he misted the same way I did, with a hand pump outside the cage.

This may or may not be true, but if you haven't already, you might try it?
I get on a step stool, mist downward from above the enclosure, the droplets collect on the screen of the cage, and then slowly start falling like rain drops.

My guy also doesn't like a dripper for some reason, maybe the area of droplets isn't wide enough or something.:rolleyes:


Additionally, do you give the dubias water crystals or anything like that?

I don't see anything obviously wrong with your gutloading, but I'm not and expert and I'm adding a link to my favorite gutloading guide anyway. :)

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html
 
Sounds like your breeder is off their freaking meds. You did nothing wrong the ficus is beneficial for the humidity and it is not causing you any issue. Just up your misting and make sure the leaves are getting wet and monitor his urates and you should be ok.
 
I keep my Dripper on all the time and mist, but sometimes he doesn't drink from it so I tried using a syringe and offering him water in that and it worked! I just drip it on whatever leave or stem he is near and once he sees it, he usually goes right for it. Good luck!
 
Thank you for the reassurance, it really sucks to be called names especially when I sincerely care about my cham and am just trying to do my best.

I will post pictures shortly, his eyes are not sunken at all but he has been eating silkworms a few times this week. He flared up a bit from the camera but obviously he is not normally angry like that.

Mister is in upper left corner, dripper hits fake leaves on the right.

http://imgur.com/rLmRmgV,jfxtgMS,OPrEUJK,5QpJ4SG,YgiuTrP,I0qY2kA

He might be drinking when you are not looking.

Are his urates orange or a pinky color?

One of my newly imported quads had pink urates. I had the vet look at the stool and the chameleon. She found nothing in the urates. He'd been eating a lot of silk worms. As a newly imported wild caught loaded with parasites, what went in his cage stayed in his cage or was put in the garbage. The silkworms often fell, and would get a dusky pinky color. The vet thinks the banged up silkworms might have colored the urates, much like our urine changes color if we eat something like beets.
 
Your husbandry looks very good. The main thing I would do is add more branches as someone else suggested. You can buy dowels from home depot and hold them to the cage with push pins, unless you don't like the look. I would especially make sure that he has a branch that is not more than 7" from the UVB light, as UVB does not travel far; in the picture the branch looks farther than that.

He does not look very dehydrated in the pictures, so if his urates are orange it must be relatively minor hydration. As someone else mentioned, he may be drinking more than you think when your gone. If he really doesn't like mist, you could try either making or buying a rain dome. You can make one by buying a 2 1/2 quart bucket from home depot (in the paint section), placing it top down on the top of the cage, and then inserting a nozzle inside through the bottom. With a rain dome, droplets collect on the top of the cage, so you would want a branch that is close enough that he can reach them.

I run rain domes for 15 minutes in the morning and then 1 minute every couple hours, and have not had any problems, even without a dripper.

Also, the behavior you mentioned from your breeder is unacceptable for any business, and really for any situation in general. I would recommend you never do business with or call him again. These forums are a great place to get info, and it is usually better to get advice from many experienced people and then make your own decision, rather than a single source.
 
Don't give the breeder anymore business in the future. If they have to resort to name calling they have issues.
Appropriate live plants are recommended over fake plants any day. We are trying to create a natural environment for our chameleons to flourish in.
I rearly see my 9 month old veild drink. He does though, as his urates are white. Good luck. Beautiful chameleon btw.
 
I have literally dozens of cages with live plants setup with Ficus, schefflera, pothos etc. To say the live plants cause issues with chameleons is ludicrous. For drinking, try misting with warm water in the cage until he starts to lick his lips. That would be close to the shower method but less stressful. I find that it matters where the drip is going in the cage. You will need to move the drip to different locations until you see him attracted to the drip of water. It helps if light is shining through the droplets. Hope this helps.
 
hot water

live plants will be fine as long as there is nothing in the top soil they can try to eat, as in white perlite balls or small sticks, roots, rocks....etc, pretty much anything that can get stuck in their stomach,which is very tiny if it can't break down the substance.
You should use hot water only when misting as when it turns to mist it cools off very rapidly and room temperature water will be very cold as a mist. This may encourage them to enjoy a soak more and drink off the warm runoff.
best of luck!
 
I haven't heard of other people having this experience, but I bought my veiled a fancy mist king system and he doesn't even like it because I accidentally got him used to droplets from the roof of his cage, and I never see him drink from leaves or anything in his enclosure except for the roof.

Since your breeder didn't answer you, I wonder if he misted the same way I did, with a hand pump outside the cage.

This may or may not be true, but if you haven't already, you might try it?
I get on a step stool, mist downward from above the enclosure, the droplets collect on the screen of the cage, and then slowly start falling like rain drops.

My guy also doesn't like a dripper for some reason, maybe the area of droplets isn't wide enough or something.:rolleyes:


Additionally, do you give the dubias water crystals or anything like that?

I don't see anything obviously wrong with your gutloading, but I'm not and expert and I'm adding a link to my favorite gutloading guide anyway. :)

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

Try the rain dome from AquaZamp. The hood goes outside the screen so when it rains, it allows water to collect on the screen. Mine drink this way too. You can get this effect easily by pointing a spray nozzle at the roof of the cage.
 
WOW Sorry you had such a bad experience from that breeder.

Definitely keep the live plant.

Definitely ditch that breeder.

And keep coming back here for support.

Good luck.
 
Wow...that breeder has a mind like a steel trap...and just as rigid. What does he think wild chams live in? Native plastic trees?

Look at it this way; to be hated by someone like that should be a compliment!
 
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